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conviction faith of the personality kind of takes us to the mind arena of choice as opposed to experience.
Isn’t choice an experience? Isn’t a moral decision a religious experience?
103:2.8 When a moral being chooses to be unselfish when confronted by the urge to be selfish, that is primitive religious experience. . . . When mind chooses a right moral judgment by an act of the free will, such a decision constitutes a religious experience.
196:3.20 Every time man makes a reflective moral choice, he immediately experiences a new divine invasion of his soul. Moral choosing constitutes religion as the motive of inner response to outer conditions. But such a real religion is not a purely subjective experience. It signifies the whole of the subjectivity of the individual engaged in a meaningful and intelligent response to total objectivity – the universe and its Maker.
I think conviction-faith means unshakable confidence in that genuine inner voice which lights the inner mind. It is this conviction, or confidence, that erases all doubt and gives a person the courage to do superhuman things. TUB lists a bunch of human performances which prove that conviction faith exists:
(1108.3) 101:3.4 Through religious faith the soul of man reveals itself and demonstrates the potential divinity of its emerging nature by the characteristic manner in which it induces the mortal personality to react to certain trying intellectual and testing social situations. Genuine spiritual faith (true moral consciousness) is revealed in that it:
(1108.4) 101:3.5 1. Causes ethics and morals to progress despite inherent and adverse animalistic tendencies.
(1108.5) 101:3.6 2. Produces a sublime trust in the goodness of God even in the face of bitter disappointment and crushing defeat.
(1108.6) 101:3.7 3. Generates profound courage and confidence despite natural adversity and physical calamity.
(1108.7) 101:3.8 4. Exhibits inexplicable poise and sustaining tranquillity notwithstanding baffling diseases and even acute physical suffering.
(1108.8) 101:3.9 5. Maintains a mysterious poise and composure of personality in the face of maltreatment and the rankest injustice.
(1108.9) 101:3.10 6. Maintains a divine trust in ultimate victory in spite of the cruelties of seemingly blind fate and the apparent utter indifference of natural forces to human welfare.
(1108.10) 101:3.11 7. Persists in the unswerving belief in God despite all contrary demonstrations of logic and successfully withstands all other intellectual sophistries.
(1108.11) 101:3.12 8. Continues to exhibit undaunted faith in the soul’s survival regardless of the deceptive teachings of false science and the persuasive delusions of unsound philosophy.
(1108.12) 101:3.13 9. Lives and triumphs irrespective of the crushing overload of the complex and partial civilizations of modern times.
(1108.13) 101:3.14 10. Contributes to the continued survival of altruism in spite of human selfishness, social antagonisms, industrial greeds, and political maladjustments.
(1108.14) 101:3.15 11. Steadfastly adheres to a sublime belief in universe unity and divine guidance regardless of the perplexing presence of evil and sin.
(1108.15) 101:3.16 12. Goes right on worshiping God in spite of anything and everything. Dares to declare, “Even though he slay me, yet will I serve him.”
(1108.16) 101:3.17 We know, then, by three phenomena, that man has a divine spirit or spirits dwelling within him: first, by personal experience — religious faith; second, by revelation — personal and racial; and third, by the amazing exhibition of such extraordinary and unnatural reactions to his material environment as are illustrated by the foregoing recital of twelve spiritlike performances in the presence of the actual and trying situations of real human existence. And there are still others.
(1109.1) 101:3.18 And it is just such a vital and vigorous performance of faith in the domain of religion that entitles mortal man to affirm the personal possession and spiritual reality of that crowning endowment of human nature, religious experience.
conviction faith of the personality kind of takes us to the mind arena of choice as opposed to experience.
Isn’t choice an experience? Isn’t a moral decision a religious experience?
103:2.8 When a moral being chooses to be unselfish when confronted by the urge to be selfish, that is primitive religious experience. . . . When mind chooses a right moral judgment by an act of the free will, such a decision constitutes a religious experience. 196:3.20 Every time man makes a reflective moral choice, he immediately experiences a new divine invasion of his soul. Moral choosing constitutes religion as the motive of inner response to outer conditions. But such a real religion is not a purely subjective experience. It signifies the whole of the subjectivity of the individual engaged in a meaningful and intelligent response to total objectivity – the universe and its Maker.
I think conviction-faith means unshakable confidence in that genuine inner voice which lights the inner mind. It is this conviction, or confidence, that erases all doubt and gives a person the courage to do superhuman things. TUB lists a bunch of human performances which prove that conviction faith exists:
(1108.3) 101:3.4 Through religious faith the soul of man reveals itself and demonstrates the potential divinity of its emerging nature by the characteristic manner in which it induces the mortal personality to react to certain trying intellectual and testing social situations. Genuine spiritual faith (true moral consciousness) is revealed in that it: (1108.4) 101:3.5 1. Causes ethics and morals to progress despite inherent and adverse animalistic tendencies. (1108.5) 101:3.6 2. Produces a sublime trust in the goodness of God even in the face of bitter disappointment and crushing defeat. (1108.6) 101:3.7 3. Generates profound courage and confidence despite natural adversity and physical calamity. (1108.7) 101:3.8 4. Exhibits inexplicable poise and sustaining tranquillity notwithstanding baffling diseases and even acute physical suffering. (1108.8) 101:3.9 5. Maintains a mysterious poise and composure of personality in the face of maltreatment and the rankest injustice. (1108.9) 101:3.10 6. Maintains a divine trust in ultimate victory in spite of the cruelties of seemingly blind fate and the apparent utter indifference of natural forces to human welfare. (1108.10) 101:3.11 7. Persists in the unswerving belief in God despite all contrary demonstrations of logic and successfully withstands all other intellectual sophistries. (1108.11) 101:3.12 8. Continues to exhibit undaunted faith in the soul’s survival regardless of the deceptive teachings of false science and the persuasive delusions of unsound philosophy. (1108.12) 101:3.13 9. Lives and triumphs irrespective of the crushing overload of the complex and partial civilizations of modern times. (1108.13) 101:3.14 10. Contributes to the continued survival of altruism in spite of human selfishness, social antagonisms, industrial greeds, and political maladjustments. (1108.14) 101:3.15 11. Steadfastly adheres to a sublime belief in universe unity and divine guidance regardless of the perplexing presence of evil and sin. (1108.15) 101:3.16 12. Goes right on worshiping God in spite of anything and everything. Dares to declare, “Even though he slay me, yet will I serve him.” (1108.16) 101:3.17 We know, then, by three phenomena, that man has a divine spirit or spirits dwelling within him: first, by personal experience — religious faith; second, by revelation — personal and racial; and third, by the amazing exhibition of such extraordinary and unnatural reactions to his material environment as are illustrated by the foregoing recital of twelve spiritlike performances in the presence of the actual and trying situations of real human existence. And there are still others. (1109.1) 101:3.18 And it is just such a vital and vigorous performance of faith in the domain of religion that entitles mortal man to affirm the personal possession and spiritual reality of that crowning endowment of human nature, religious experience.
Great Stuff Bonita!! The first quote in the Paper reminds us of the ‘spectrum’ of faith-acts us mortals experience and express!
101:0.1 (1104.1) RELIGION, as a human experience, ranges from the primitive fear slavery of the evolving savage up to the sublime and magnificent faith liberty of those civilized mortals who are superbly conscious of sonship with the eternal God.
I am reminded that children and primitives (including savages and barbarians) and the most ignorant and immature and inexperienced and misguided among us mortals also respond to both morality and the spirit ministry within. From the unconscious to the superbly conscious!
This is so important: we are designed and created and born totally wired to reality and our spirit nature. This is an inherent reality within us each and all (or mostly so). It does not depend upon knowledge or belief or conversion or specific creeds or ceremonial process or confession or baptism or any other thing …..it merely is a normal and natural response to the spirit within. We don’t find it or need to look for it….all is provided and is fully functional. Even yearning, God-hunger, the thirst and hunger for righteousness and perfection…that too is natural and imbedded in the ministry of mortals….we are born, we are taught, friendly and generous and helpful and happy – that’s how we come naturally! Remember the cave man!!
101:1.2 (1104.5) The Thought Adjuster has no special mechanism through which to gain self-expression; there is no mystic religious faculty for the reception or expression of religious emotions. These experiences are made available through the naturally ordained mechanism of mortal mind. And therein lies one explanation of the Adjuster’s difficulty in engaging in direct communication with the material mind of its constant indwelling.
101:1.3 (1104.6) The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. “Without holiness no man may see the Lord.” All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.
101:1.4 (1105.1) Religion lives and prospers, then, not by sight and feeling, but rather by faith and insight. It consists not in the discovery of new facts or in the finding of a unique experience, but rather in the discovery of new and spiritual meanings in facts already well known to mankind. The highest religious experience is not dependent on prior acts of belief, tradition, and authority; neither is religion the offspring of sublime feelings and purely mystical emotions. It is, rather, a profoundly deep and actual experience of spiritual communion with the spirit influences resident within the human mind, and as far as such an experience is definable in terms of psychology, it is simply the experience of experiencing the reality of believing in God as the reality of such a purely personal experience.
101:1.5 (1105.2) While religion is not the product of the rationalistic speculations of a material cosmology, it is, nonetheless, the creation of a wholly rational insight which originates in man’s mind-experience. Religion is born neither of mystic meditations nor of isolated contemplations, albeit it is ever more or less mysterious and always indefinable and inexplicable in terms of purely intellectual reason and philosophic logic. The germs of true religion originate in the domain of man’s moral consciousness, and they are revealed in the growth of man’s spiritual insight, that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind.
This is so important: we are designed and created and born totally wired to reality and our spirit nature. This is an inherent reality within us each and all (or mostly so). It does not depend upon knowledge or belief or conversion or specific creeds or ceremonial process or confession or baptism or any other thing …..it merely is a normal and natural response to the spirit within. We don’t find it or need to look for it….all is provided and is fully functional. Even yearning, God-hunger, the thirst and hunger for righteousness and perfection…that too is natural and imbedded in the ministry of mortals….we are born, we are taught, friendly and generous and helpful and happy – that’s how we come naturally! Remember the cave man!!
That’s why evil and sin are defined as forms of resistance to cosmic reality. Conscious and purposeful resistance is sin. Partial resistance causes distortion and maladjustment, which is evil. It really is all good if you work to avoid resistance to reality. But I do think we have to do the necessary work in learning to recognize when we’re resisting, and then stop. The material nature does clamor loudly for attention at times. That too, is part of the divine plan though.
(51.12) 3:5.13 8. Is unselfishness — the spirit of self-forgetfulness — desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.
Our dual natures are also God’s gift to us. If we had only one nature we would not have the necessary conflict. A wholly material life would be a stable life, as would a wholly spiritual life. Most humans have neither. Instability is not well tolerated by the personality or the mind, which are naturally both attuned to unity. So even the struggle for mental and personality stability is a gift we should cherish. We live in time and space and time is part of God’s precious gift of education. How wonderful is it to be allowed to begin learning at the very bottom of the learning curve! (Even below the tadpole level.)
118:8.11 . . . Man’s great universe adventure consists in the transit of his mortal mind from the stability of mechanical statics to the divinity of spiritual dynamics, and he achieves this transformation by the force and constancy of his own personality decisions, in each of life’s situations declaring, “It is my will that your will be done.”
“Bradly wrote:
This is so important: we are designed and created and born totally wired to reality and our spirit nature. This is an inherent reality within us each and all (or mostly so). It does not depend upon knowledge or belief or conversion or specific creeds or ceremonial process or confession or baptism or any other thing …..it merely is a normal and natural response to the spirit within. We don’t find it or need to look for it….all is provided and is fully functional. Even yearning, God-hunger, the thirst and hunger for righteousness and perfection…that too is natural and imbedded in the ministry of mortals….we are born, we are taught, friendly and generous and helpful and happy – that’s how we come naturally! Remember the cave man!”Isnt this analogous to what Jesus taught about entering the kingdom as a child?
contrast this with what can happen to us as we try to find religion in the wrong places and find ourselves holding onto beliefs, traditions and authorities as opposed to faith, trust and assurance. We could easily become unwitting secularists.
Yes Bonita….one must truly and actively resist the natural wonderings and workings of our mind and the spiritual influences and ministries of mind to prevent its spiritization…..or, we must be subjected to an environment of fear and depravity and example that overwhelms this natural ministry in mind as children in ways which can certainly delay the effects and blessings of this ministry. While nothing and no one may manipulate mind to deny or overwhelm our free will (at least this is so upon a certain age of self determination), still there is a natural proclivity and the influence of the gravity circuits generally and then also additionally are the more direct voices and the yearning and hunger and thirsts delivered in mind by the Spirit…not to mention the more external influences of the angels in managing our personal intersections of situation and circumstance.
It is quite a conspiracy within to guide us into and through faith experiences….regardless of how enlightened or how primitive those may be one individual to another….but response does bring progress over time. One may not blame the choices of others for our own decisions and results for long in life. We are in charge of ourselves…no matter our choice to blame others for our reality and the results and repercussions of our own free will choices and motives and intentions and priorities in this life.
We may and should progress in our ability to discern new meanings from familiar intersections of choice and response and to discover new values also….which helps us to grow in our discernments and grow in wisdom which is not measured by or against any others so much I do not think as compared, over time, only to ourselves. If we are not facing new choices but only the same ones, it is because we’re stuck in a rut and lack discernment – or thinking. We’re not thinking, just ego reacting, seeking the temporal solutions for self importance…and such reactionary ‘decision making’ gets very circular and unprogressive – even regressive.
On the other hand, the more often we make a moral decision, the more convinced we become of its rightness and value, and the more frequently we will choose thusly until it becomes a reflex rather than a thoughtful response – it feels right within, we are justified with confirmations of righteousness I think. The Spirits act as the confirmer of righteousness as well as the source of yearning for righteousness.
Jesus taught us that we should do right for right’s sake and not to avoid punishment…there is a power in righteousness that is satisfying, soul satisfying…it is the bread and water of life…and we are filled with the nourishment of and by such dining. It’s nutrition delivers health and vitality…happiness and harmony and erases the anxieties of uncertainty. Not knowing what’s next or the outcomes of choices can only become adventurous to those who are pure in heart…divinely motivated within to love and serve and seek meaning and value in all the choosing that follows by our trust in God’s purpose, power, plan, and WAY.
The “...naturally ordained mechanism of the mind…” to those who are thoughtful and attentive, truly seeking meaning and value whereby – “…ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings…” – delivers, by both faith AND insight – “...the discovery of new and spiritual meaning in facts…” – which are familiar and already known to us by prior experience. We are to feel this discovery and its truth/reality confirmation as a form or expression of communion and closeness and actual relationship with the TA within, the source of the/our yearn and hunger for this experience/assurance, and the satisfaction felt by this experience which delivers sustenance to mind and soul To yearn is like the raising of the sail in search of the wind and to discern is for that sail of hoisted yearning to be filled by the wind which delivers the power and force of motion to the ship of our soul – “…spiritual communion….“!
Once we have hoisted such a sail and felt such a wind, we will do so again…and again!
All of this process and result is also confirmed and harmonized in mind by how rational is such discernment…it is not mystical or nonsensical or counterintuitive….no, just the opposite – it is entirely logical and reasonable and rational in its results, if also mysterious, indefinable, and inexplicable in its process! The meanings and values discerned and adopted are rational by such experience – but insight itself? Not so much. What made us great hunters and agriculturalists? Hunger and thirst. We’re told that primitive man did not think much until hunger stirred the brain. The TA uses the hunger and thirst of the spirit to goad and lure the mind into contemplation and the hunt for meanings and values I think.
101:1.6 (1105.3) Faith unites moral insight with conscientious discriminations of values, and the pre-existent evolutionary sense of duty completes the ancestry of true religion. The experience of religion eventually results in the certain consciousness of God and in the undoubted assurance of the survival of the believing personality.
101:1.7 (1105.4) Thus it may be seen that religious longings and spiritual urges are not of such a nature as would merely lead men to want to believe in God, but rather are they of such nature and power that men are profoundly impressed with the conviction that they ought to believe in God. The sense of evolutionary duty and the obligations consequent upon the illumination of revelation make such a profound impression upon man’s moral nature that he finally reaches that position of mind and that attitude of soul where he concludes that he has no right not to believe in God. The higher and superphilosophic wisdom of such enlightened and disciplined individuals ultimately instructs them that to doubt God or distrust his goodness would be to prove untrue to the realest and deepest thing within the human mind and soul — the divine Adjuster.
Gene – I think that means we are to be trusting and confident in our care and outcomes and we must not clutch preconception tightly enough that it becomes merely ignorance and prejudice….a child is willing, even eager to learn and is trusting of the parent who guides us into discovery!! But we are to grow up upon entering the kingdom…and mature and grow and become skillful and wise and grow fruit by our faith and our discernments. Perhaps we are to enter as such but tadpoles grow….flippers, legs, feet, and lungs as they leave behind the tail and the gills of entry to transformation. Or so I think.
“Gene – I think that means we are to be trusting and confident in our care and outcomes and we must not clutch preconception tightly enough that it becomes merely ignorance and prejudice….a child is willing, even eager to learn and is trusting of the parent who guides us into discovery!! But we are to grow up upon entering the kingdom…and mature and grow and become skillful and wise and grow fruit by our faith and our discernments. Perhaps we are to enter as such but tadpoles grow….flippers, legs, feet, and lungs as they leave behind the tail and the gills of entry to transformation. Or so I think.”
right, but how then to become adults in the kingdom? We need to grow. And how do we do that? We are taught that we cannot cause growth by our own will but we can create favorable conditions that fosters growth. And how did we do that?
possibly learning how to deal with that constant clamoring self? Get in sync with the cosmos so we can be grown by those spirit ministries that are reaching down to help make it happen?
We are taught that we cannot cause growth by our own will but we can create favorable conditions that fosters growth. And how did we do that?
There’s a quote for that:
100.1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.
We are taught that we cannot cause growth by our own will but we can create favorable conditions that fosters growth. And how did we do that?
There’s a quote for that:
100.1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.
Thx
i interpret that the “factors of religious growth” that are “intentional” are synonyms with What’s listed in the first part if the quote as those “habits” which favor growth. One and the same?
those factors or habits are the things we can do that allow spirit to grow us.
Am I tying factors to habits in this quote correctly or am I missing something? It’s easy for me to miss stuff.
Don’t wish to dive down another rabbit hole here….but….note that one of the habits and predispositions for religious growth is the “…recognition of religious living in others….”.
Hmmm……..seems to me that those who voice such disappointment in others faith-expressions or personal religious experience and the low opinion of our world in general do not recognize the religious living in others. And seem to compare themselves more favorably than most others in religious status and perspective. This attitude leads to all sorts of dangerous evils and potentials of spiritual pride and the resistance to the TA’s ministry within. In consideration of “favorable conditions that fosters growth” and “religious habits” that are contributory to growth, consider:
100:0.2 (1094.2) Spiritual growth is mutually stimulated by intimate association with other religionists. Love supplies the soil for religious growth — an objective lure in the place of subjective gratification — yet it yields the supreme subjective satisfaction. And religion ennobles the commonplace drudgery of daily living.
100:1.5 (1094.7) The soil essential for religious growth presupposes a progressive life of self-realization, the co-ordination of natural propensities, the exercise of curiosity and the enjoyment of reasonable adventure, the experiencing of feelings of satisfaction, the functioning of the fear stimulus of attention and awareness, the wonder-lure, and a normal consciousness of smallness, humility. Growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism — conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of oneself by one’s own value-habits, personal ideals.
Notice self criticism and humility and the love for other religionists (and who is not one if we understand the spectrum of spirit response and faith expression in people?)….all 3 seem at odds with those who tend to judge others individually and universally, and have a dim view of our world’s relative epochal progress in spiritualization….those who clearly see the dark patches and are blind to the contrasting truth, beauty, and goodness in and by our fellows.
Jesus was so positive and supporting of his fellows generally and individually…and had/has great affection and hope and a sunny disposition to share in his ministry of love and hope. What is our perspective? For our perspective is in many ways the soil essential for our spiritual growth and progress. A negative perspective will not bear the vine or deliver the fruit of the vine to our life. This is far beyond optimism….it is the foundation of perspective….reality is positive….how real is our view and our soil?
2. The Fact of Religion
101:2.1 (1105.5) The fact of religion consists wholly in the religious experience of rational and average human beings. And this is the only sense in which religion can ever be regarded as scientific or even psychological. The proof that revelation is revelation is this same fact of human experience: the fact that revelation does synthesize the apparently divergent sciences of nature and the theology of religion into a consistent and logical universe philosophy, a co-ordinated and unbroken explanation of both science and religion, thus creating a harmony of mind and satisfaction of spirit which answers in human experience those questionings of the mortal mind which craves to know how the Infinite works out his will and plans in matter, with minds, and on spirit.
101:2.2 (1106.1) Reason is the method of science; faith is the method of religion; logic is the attempted technique of philosophy. Revelation compensates for the absence of the morontia viewpoint by providing a technique for achieving unity in the comprehension of the reality and relationships of matter and spirit by the mediation of mind. And true revelation never renders science unnatural, religion unreasonable, or philosophy illogical.
101:2.3 (1106.2) Reason, through the study of science, may lead back through nature to a First Cause, but it requires religious faith to transform the First Cause of science into a God of salvation; and revelation is further required for the validation of such a faith, such spiritual insight.
101:2.4 (1106.3) There are two basic reasons for believing in a God who fosters human survival:
101:2.5 (1106.4) 1. Human experience, personal assurance, the somehow registered hope and trust initiated by the indwelling Thought Adjuster.
101:2.6 (1106.5) 2. The revelation of truth, whether by direct personal ministry of the Spirit of Truth, by the world bestowal of divine Sons, or through the revelations of the written word.
Some very important concepts above: the two forms of revelation presented – personal and epochal; assurance, hope, and trust initiated by the TA; validation for faith and insight (confirmation of the inner life/experience/personal revelation); transformation of the ghost fears of an impersonal creator to a paternal figure of personal love and care; and the rational formation of a workable and harmonious philosophy of living which integrates and unifies reality in mind – both religious and material realities into the unity of comprehension!
How ‘real’ one’s religious experience is has certain measures of function and outcome it appears. And average persons may experience the fullness of true and real religion regardless of its personal nature and unique experience and expressions by each religionist. The yearning, the confirmations, and the fruits may be all that is shared by us all it seems.
That religion which does not integrate the material life and the inner life is not yet rational apparently. It is irrational for science and religion to contradict one another as both are focused on the same reality from differing perspectives….which requires that both perspectives provide harmonious integrations of reality. To the degree that our science/material and religious/spiritual perspectives are self or mutually contradictory must result and provide evidence of the irrationality of one or both points of view I think.
Recall how Jesus taught about the kingdom using the metaphors of the physical/material world of familiarity to portray the realities of the spirit life. Both worlds were a singular, harmonious, and integrated reality to the Son of Man.
i interpret that the “factors of religious growth” that are “intentional” are synonyms with What’s listed in the first part if the quote as those “habits” which favor growth. One and the same? those factors or habits are the things we can do that allow spirit to grow us. Am I tying factors to habits in this quote correctly or am I missing something? It’s easy for me to miss stuff.
I think I’m missing something too. I don’t really understand your concerns. There are lots of things essential to religious growth, but it all comes down to attitude, which is why those four faith attitudes are so very, very important in fostering religious habits of thinking. But you do know that spirit doesn’t grow us, right? It’s a co-creative partnership; the soul has two parents. So, I can’t say much else without understanding exactly what it is you’re asking.
i interpret that the “factors of religious growth” that are “intentional” are synonyms with What’s listed in the first part if the quote as those “habits” which favor growth. One and the same? those factors or habits are the things we can do that allow spirit to grow us. Am I tying factors to habits in this quote correctly or am I missing something? It’s easy for me to miss stuff.
The quote says such habits/factors MAY be intentional…and sometimes are. But I think a reflexive response or ‘habit’ is not “intentional” by definition….what may have once required consideration and thought becomes habitual and reflexive. And I also think some people develop such reflexes and habits as a natural response to the inner life and spirit/mind ministry within….were the Alpheus twins ‘intentional’ in their sincerities and reflexive responses??
Some of us do intellectualize and conceptualize much related to our situational and circumstantial responses…some are more instinctual and feeling (and remember how spiritual can be our instincts!). Now we are taught that it is our thinking and not our feelings that lead to our relationship with and growth in the spirit…but I’m not sure I really understand that. Don’t those with high ideals and great hopes and faith operate in the super-conscious? I’m not sure at all that I understand this distinction between feeling and thinking. I’m wondering if by “feeling” the authors mean simple emotionalism? And emotional responses?
For I think that there are those who feel their way into great spiritual progress and growth and they have a way of associative integration that harmonizes reality and empowers the Spirit to spiritize…it’s another form of intentionalism. I doubt if I’m helping here…hahahahha!
Now we are taught that it is our thinking and not our feelings that lead to our relationship with and growth in the spirit…but I’m not sure I really understand that. Don’t those with high ideals and great hopes and faith operate in the super-conscious? I’m not sure at all that I understand this distinction between feeling and thinking. I’m wondering if by “feeling” the authors mean simple emotionalism? And emotional responses?
I’ve said this before but it didn’t get much acceptance at the time. I think there are different levels of emotions, just as there are different levels of love. There are animalistic emotions and there are divine emotions, and then there’s the entire gamut of human emotions which lie in-between. The four faith attitudes help the mind in directionalizing emotions towards the divine end of the spectrum. Feelings are mostly reflexive, but emotions can be taught to conform to higher meanings and values which lead to a more mature and stable character. The spiritual nature is supposed to gain control over the lower nature, and that includes controlling one’s emotions. They do tell us that a manifestation of greatness is holding one’s tongue, that’s another way of saying, controlling one’s emotions. (Which is why resorting to ad hominem when feelings are hurt is an obvious indicator of immaturity.)
p1121:5 102:3.3 Material feelings, human emotions, lead directly to material actions, selfish acts. Religious insights, spiritual motivations, lead directly to religious actions, unselfish acts of social service and altruistic benevolence.
Thanks for that Bonita!!
It would be interesting and topical to consider this issue further I think. I’m also not sure I understand super-conscious any more than I do ‘feelings’ or emotions. How specifically cognitive or intellectual is ‘thinking’ anyway? Cannot people find righteousness in motives, intentions, priorities, and choices without intentional, cognitive belief constructs? (I’m not sure I can…but what makes me so special or representative either one?)
I mean, even for me, I feel my faith and my trust and my truth confirmations and the flow of energy and events and the rightness of situations and outcomes and the touch of the Spirit…..these feelings do bring about many thoughts and thinking but do others ‘think’ in the same way as me? We are told the angels have feelings and emotions – affection is an emotion/feeling, as is sympathy I think. And what of loyalty? Is it cognitive and intellectual? No, I don’t think so. In fact, love itself may be defined and discussed by the intellect and by thinking, but it can never be understood or experienced or given intellectually can it?
This is directly related to Religion In Human Experience and The Real Nature of Religion (thanks Gene for taking the discussion in this direction! – I don’t think you missed anything but rather discovered something to share – and thanks Bonita for the clarification!). So, aren’t emotions/feelings also sourced in mind and by the gift/loan of mind? From where else might it arise? Love has a specific source. Is it given to us by the mind circuits? I don’t think there is a feeling/emotion ‘circuit’ but they are certainly normal…both the good and bad – fear and pride are also emotions/feelings, no? So I assume the mind is the source of both cognition and feelings. Is feeling a form of thinking? There are negative emotions and there certainly is stinkin’ thinkin’! How are they similar and different? (Help!)
We certainly can change our auto reactions and control our lower/lesser/negative emotions by mind and we can change what we think about and what we think about what we think about….how is all this related?
113:2.5 (1243.2) The angels develop an abiding affection for their human associates; and you would, if you could only visualize the seraphim, develop a warm affection for them. Divested of material bodies, given spirit forms, you would be very near the angels in many attributes of personality. They share most of your emotions and experience some additional ones. The only emotion actuating you which is somewhat difficult for them to comprehend is the legacy of animal fear that bulks so large in the mental life of the average inhabitant of Urantia. The angels really find it hard to understand why you will so persistently allow your higher intellectual powers, even your religious faith, to be so dominated by fear, so thoroughly demoralized by the thoughtless panic of dread and anxiety.
113:5.2 (1246.1) Angels are so near you and care so feelingly for you that they figuratively “weep because of your willful intolerance and stubbornness.” Seraphim do not shed physical tears; they do not have physical bodies; neither do they possess wings. But they do have spiritual emotions, and they do experience feelings and sentiments of a spiritual nature which are in certain ways comparable to human emotions.
This study group remains, so far, mysteriously small….but it has been mighty in its results for this student and tadpole. So much discovery and integration and harmonization ….thanks Bonita and Gene and Enno! Have you noticed what teachers we often become by the asking of a question? I recall even the Master taught with questions in many situations and with great results. Wonderful.
How specifically cognitive or intellectual is ‘thinking’ anyway?
Well obviously there is thinking all of the time, 24/7. The mind never sleeps. That doesn’t mean that we’re fully conscious of all that goes on in our minds. There are two unconscious levels, the subconscious and superconscious, but even those levels occasionally become conscious. It all depends on where the focus is. Focusing only on stimuli from the external world, reacting only to incoming data without thinking about it, is what amoebas do. Even animals think and learn using mind ministry. Humans who don’t think and prefer to react to their environment with only feelings and emotions seems rather infantile to me. Mind is more than just feelings and emotions. So, if you’re not conscious of thinking during wakeful hours, I think there’s something wrong. Mind is where identity is established (12.8:16). The soul cannot exist without moral thinking (133:6.5).
There are several quotes which explain how personality changes everything when it comes to thinking. Mind without personality is rather mechanical with some learning from trial and error. But personalities think about external stimuli; they turn their focus inward and mull through various ideas concerning incoming data. Mind being unified by personality has the capability of transcending time, looking to the past and the future in order to formulate ideas concerning the present. It also has the reservoirs of subconscious memories and superconscious guidance. I think we’re meant to be deep thinkers, if we’re utilizing the cosmic reality responses, which incidentally never fail to appear in all bona fide human beings . . . that’s creatures with personality.
p1479:7 133:7.7 Ideas are not simply a record of sensations; ideas are sensations plus the reflective interpretations of the personal self; and the self is more than the sum of one’s sensations. There begins to be something of an approach to unity in an evolving selfhood, and that unity is derived from the indwelling presence of a part of absolute unity which spiritually activates such a self-conscious animal-origin mind.
p1480:1 133:7.9 Neither is the human self merely the sum of the successive states of consciousness. Without the effective functioning of a consciousness sorter and associator there would not exist sufficient unity to warrant the designation of a selfhood. Such an ununified mind could hardly attain conscious levels of human status. If the associations of consciousness were just an accident, the minds of all men would then exhibit the uncontrolled and random associations of certain phases of mental madness.
p1480:2 133:7.10 A human mind, built up solely out of the consciousness of physical sensations, could never attain spiritual levels; this kind of material mind would be utterly lacking in a sense of moral values and would be without a guiding sense of spiritual dominance which is so essential to achieving harmonious personality unity in time, and which is inseparable from personality survival in eternity.
p1480:3 133:7.11 The human mind early begins to manifest qualities which are supermaterial; the truly reflective human intellect is not altogether bound by the limits of time. That individuals so differ in their life performances indicates, not only the varying endowments of heredity and the different influences of the environment, but also the degree of unification with the indwelling spirit of the Father which has been achieved by the self, the measure of the identification of the one with the other.
p1480:4 133:7.12 The human mind does not well stand the conflict of double allegiance. It is a severe strain on the soul to undergo the experience of an effort to serve both good and evil. The supremely happy and efficiently unified mind is the one wholly dedicated to the doing of the will of the Father in heaven. Unresolved conflicts destroy unity and may terminate in mind disruption. But the survival character of a soul is not fostered by attempting to secure peace of mind at any price, by the surrender of noble aspirations, and by the compromise of spiritual ideals; rather is such peace attained by the stalwart assertion of the triumph of that which is true, and this victory is achieved in the overcoming of evil with the potent force of good.
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