The Panopticon and TUB's Panoptian…

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  • #11203
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    B.B., in my first reading of the Urantia Book, this world was a prison planet, but times change, so regardless of what it says, if you are on a planet that was in rebellion, you are a prisoner. So, did you know that you are a prisoner? So, why would anyone else think that they were on a prison world unless the majority of its inhabitance were below the poverty level. If you follow the money, you will find the prison wardens.

     

    I had to revisit this post as your statement really struck a cord in me. If we live on a quarantined planet, yet completely oblivious to this, then who is to say interned, rebel angels even are aware they are in prison!  There are so many layers to TUB!  Fascinating!

    BB

    #11211
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I had to revisit this post as your statement really struck a cord in me. If we live on a quarantined planet, yet completely oblivious to this, then who is to say interned, rebel angels even are aware they are in prison! There are so many layers to TUB! Fascinating!

    If you look further you may see another viewpoint regarding whether this is a prison world, where in Revelation Chapter 21 verse 1:

    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    Where in keeping with your new topic, “the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea”, which just might be referring to the planet Mars, where it is assumed that it once had sea’s and a civilization, where because of the polar ice cap might indicate that something catastrophic may have occurred there.  Where that our planet became ready for habitation and that over time, our planet became a redemption world where in Revelation Chapter 12, it indicates that the following:

    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    Where it might be considered that this earth is a place where things might be made right, and everyone, even the angels, given a chance to redeem themselves, but at the same time, what would be a punishment is to not die and realize that one has been re-personalized and made to go through the life again and again, because they “loved not their lives” where it would be better to say that they did not love life of all kinds, and thereby taking advantage of those who could not defend themselves without the assistance of those who look upon others as beneath them.  How better to adjudicate the world and their inhabitance than through the experience of living.  So, those who think themselves as above others will eventually be left behind, to suffer their own prison of their own making.  That’s why I honestly believe that this world is what they call hell on earth, and you can either make the best of it and cause suffering or, suffer and be the best of them.

     

    #11217
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    I had to revisit this post as your statement really struck a cord in me. If we live on a quarantined planet, yet completely oblivious to this, then who is to say interned, rebel angels even are aware they are in prison! There are so many layers to TUB! Fascinating!

    If you look further you may see another viewpoint regarding whether this is a prison world, where in Revelation Chapter 21 verse 1:

    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    Where in keeping with your new topic, “the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea”, which just might be referring to the planet Mars, where it is assumed that it once had sea’s and a civilization, where because of the polar ice cap might indicate that something catastrophic may have occurred there. Where that our planet became ready for habitation and that over time, our planet became a redemption world where in Revelation Chapter 12, it indicates that the following:

    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    Where it might be considered that this earth is a place where things might be made right, and everyone, even the angels, given a chance to redeem themselves, but at the same time, what would be a punishment is to not die and realize that one has been re-personalized and made to go through the life again and again, because they “loved not their lives” where it would be better to say that they did not love life of all kinds, and thereby taking advantage of those who could not defend themselves without the assistance of those who look upon others as beneath them. How better to adjudicate the world and their inhabitance than through the experience of living. So, those who think themselves as above others will eventually be left behind, to suffer their own prison of their own making. That’s why I honestly believe that this world is what they call hell on earth, and you can either make the best of it and cause suffering or, suffer and be the best of them.

    So you do think Earth is one of the detention spheres  orbiting the World of the Father? If so then you do not think “Urantia” is our planet Earth but an ideal Earth?

    BB

    #11220
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So you do think Earth is one of the detention spheres orbiting the World of the Father? If so then you do not think “Urantia” is our planet Earth but an ideal Earth?

    I don’t know if one could call the planet Earth as an ideal world, but time has a way of circling around onto itself, so, if one believes physical reality to be what science has determined it to be, then what we see from this solar system, might be like looking through a two way mirror, where we can see out but others cannot see in, whereby we are one of the Thirty-seven worlds which were isolated due to the seceding Planetary Princes, and being in quarantine would be considered as being in prison.  Although, as you mentioned that if we are on one of the Prison Worlds “orbiting the World of the Father?” would this also indicate that the Father was also a Prisoner? at the center of all these things, and that our existence was or is an illusion, only being able to see what is intended for us to see?  And, that the intense effort to determine where we are in the Grand Universe is a way of finding out where we are in order to fashion a prison break, so to speak, not sure?  But what I do know is that a few years ago I performed a search on the word “earth” in the Urantia Book and found no hits, and performed the same search on the word “Urantia”, and now the word “earth” would seem to have replaced many of the word, “Urantia”, where most if not all might say that this is just my imagination but who is to know for sure, why even the word “truth” and its derivatives, as to how many times it appeared, was once a topic of interest on other forums.  Also, I was privately sanctioned for posting a statement about the different versions of the Urantia Book that I reading and noticing, where my post was removed by Admin, why?  So, who can say anything for sure, as to what this reality is?  But, who knows, maybe we are living in the time after the thousand years where the Dragon of old has been released again, to see how we would respond?

    #11223
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    I started a thread a couple months back on the subject of Father’s imprisonment and the “technique of trinitization.” At the time I entertained the idea that Father originally was imprisoned by Eternal Son and that this cosmic phenomenon echoed throughout the universes, even finding expression in our system as the Luciferian rebellion. Here are the TUB scriptures in question:

    “The Eternal Son is that infinite personality from whose unqualified personality fetters the Universal Father escaped by the technique of trinitization, and by  virtue of which he has ever since continued to bestow himself in endless profusion upon his ever expanding universe of Creators and creatures.”

    “The Universal Father achieves freewill liberation from the bonds of infinity and the fetters of eternity by the technique of trinitization, threefold Deity personalization.”

    My argument in that thread is that Lucifer, perhaps, believes he can achieve liberation by employing the same technique Father used against Eternal Son and Infinity.  And it may explain his steadfast defiance to the call of repentance. Recall, presently he is orbiting the temple of Light located at the center of the Prison world. Surely he is receiving spiritual messages emanating across the spirit circuit of the temple.

    BB

    #11265
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am thinking that Lucifer’s unyielding stance to repentance is because he believes that he too can effect a form of “trinitization,” to escape the “fetters” of the Universe’s first son, Michael; the fetters in this case would be sub-satellite one of the Father’s world. It is this technique of trinitization that perhaps he believes is proof to automatic resurrection inherent in all souls. Also if he sees himself as a “Father” figure rivaling Universal Father, then it could explain why one of the tenets to his doctrine is that UF is a fabrication of the Paradise sons to enslave creation.

    In looking back to one of your previous statements, above, where you present “the Universe’s first son,” but in the grand scale of the Grand Universe, where any previous age, or ages are inclusive at its central location, where “first son” cannot be established as true because, as we know from the UB, the Michael’s are compound representations of who?  “One who is like God?”  However, little has been presented on the forums, regarding “original son” where it is listed 27 times in the UB, and has been implied as the “eternal son” but linked with additional entities.  Where “trinitization” could be a precursor to actualization, wherein the actualization of the trinitized Supreme.  Almost like a reversal process from paradise where the Father begets the original son, through an androgynous process, whereby this process fragments the compound Father with Spirit, to create the original son through time or eternity.  Now this process of spiritual fragmentation has been reversed as a material defragmentation, a rebuilding of sorts or sorting out, microscopic to macroscopic, passing through the eye of a needle, so to speak.  Therefore can we assume that the original son in an opposite realm could be a process which might take on, in scientific terms, from negative light, to (neutral) darkness, where the darkness absorbs all light, to positive light, which is inclusive of all, or from anti-matter to matter.  Where the space between the two light forms is dark matter and has the property of reversing or mirror imaging light and life.

    In the scientific world where they think that their supercolliders will produce a viable God particle, through a violent reaction is not possible and can only be achieved through a void, or vacuum like plasma where this God particle can be controlled to create and make anything relative to known matter, where even life can be recreated within reason, using “ultramicroscopic organisms of the realm” from which they exist.  This would be considered a “trinitization” process or technique through varying liquid-light.

    Where in the following quotes, the I AM could be considered as the God particle:

    (1154.3)105:2.4 By these internal metamorphoses the I AM is establishing the basis for a sevenfold self-relationship. The philosophic (time) concept of the solitary I AM and the transitional (time) concept of the I AM as triune can now be enlarged to encompass the I AM as sevenfold. This sevenfold — or seven phase — nature may be best suggested in relation to the Seven Absolutes of Infinity:

    (1154.4)105:2.5 1. The Universal Father. I AM father of the Eternal Son. This is the primal personality relationship of actualities. The absolute personality of the Son makes absolute the fact of God’s fatherhood and establishes the potential sonship of all personalities. This relationship establishes the personality of the Infinite and consummates its spiritual revelation in the personality of the Original Son. This phase of the I AM is partially experiencible on spiritual levels even by mortals who, while yet in the flesh, may worship our Father.

    (1154.5)105:2.6 2. The Universal Controller. I AM cause of eternal Paradise. This is the primal impersonal relationship of actualities, the original nonspiritual association. The Universal Father is God-as-love; the Universal Controller is God-as-pattern. This relationship establishes the potential of form — configuration — and determines the master pattern of impersonal and nonspiritual relationship — the master pattern from which all copies are made.

    (1154.6)105:2.7 3. The Universal Creator. I AM one with the Eternal Son. This union of the Father and the Son (in the presence of Paradise) initiates the creative cycle, which is consummated in the appearance of conjoint personality and the eternal universe. From the finite mortal’s viewpoint, reality has its true beginnings with the eternity appearance of the Havona creation. This creative act of Deity is by and through the God of Action, who is in essence the unity of the Father-Son manifested on and to all levels of the actual. Therefore is divine creativity unfailingly characterized by unity, and this unity is the outward reflection of the absolute oneness of the duality of the Father-Son and of the Trinity of the Father-Son-Spirit.

    (1155.1)105:2.8 4. The Infinite Upholder. I AM self-associative. This is the primordial association of the statics and potentials of reality. In this relationship, all qualifieds and unqualifieds are compensated. This phase of the I AM is best understood as the Universal Absolute — the unifier of the Deity and the Unqualified Absolutes.

    (1155.2)105:2.9 5. The Infinite Potential. I AM self-qualified. This is the infinity bench mark bearing eternal witness to the volitional self-limitation of the I AM by virtue of which there was achieved threefold self-expression and self-revelation. This phase of the I AM is usually understood as the Deity Absolute.

    (1155.3)105:2.10 6. The Infinite Capacity. I AM static-reactive. This is the endless matrix, the possibility for all future cosmic expansion. This phase of the I AM is perhaps best conceived as the supergravity presence of the Unqualified Absolute.

    (1155.4)105:2.11 7. The Universal One of Infinity. I AM as I AM. This is the stasis or self-relationship of Infinity, the eternal fact of infinity-reality and the universal truth of reality-infinity. In so far as this relationship is discernible as personality, it is revealed to the universes in the divine Father of all personality — even of absolute personality. In so far as this relationship is impersonally expressible, it is contacted by the universe as the absolute coherence of pure energy and of pure spirit in the presence of the Universal Father. In so far as this relationship is conceivable as an absolute, it is revealed in the primacy of the First Source and Center; in him we all live and move and have our being, from the creatures of space to the citizens of Paradise; and this is just as true of the master universe as of the infinitesimal ultimaton, just as true of what is to be as of that which is and of what has been.

    #11267
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    Midi, could you elaborate on fragmentation and defragmentation. thanks!

    BB

    #11273
    Avatar
    emanny3003
    Blocked

    This would be considered a “trinitization” process or technique through varying liquid-light.

    Hi Midi,

    Can you say more about this “liquid light”?

    (1155.3)105:2.10 6. The Infinite Capacity. I AM static-reactive. This is the endless matrix, the possibility for all future cosmic expansion. This phase of the I AM is perhaps best conceived as the supergravity presence of the Unqualified Absolute.

    Do you have any conceptualizations on “endless matrix”?

    Thanks. Manny

    #11280
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Midi, could you elaborate on fragmentation and defragmentation. thanks!

    In the case where I used these terms, has a multiple usage or analogy, where if fragmentation, or fragmented: “2. existing or functioning as though broken into separate parts; disorganized; disunified: a fragmented personality; a fragmented society” – then defragmentation would be an orderly sorting or reorganizing the fragmented parts into some contiguous order or even alternate patterns which would either reconstruct an original creation, entity or unified structure even though these individual fragments are self functioning, where the end result is either an original pattern or a new component which can function as needed.  This is not that much different than defragmenting files on a computer which have been placed on a disk in non-contiguous order, making their access slower.  Also in the context of the posted information above, it could also apply to matter when dematerialized into smaller parts in order to, either pass through a smaller space or orifice, like the eye of a needle, or removing or adding one or more of its component part to change the end product when the re-materialization process has been completed.

    The UB segments posted above seemed an appropriate fit to a process which was described in a book that I read, which was quite informative, even though it was written as a fictional narration, but seem to contain a plethora of information contained within its context.  Maybe you have read it or are familiar with its author: “Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson” – G. I. Gurdjieff.

    Anyway, there was interesting information which seemed to correlate to the Urantia Book in that the phrases one brained, two brained and three brained beings was repeatedly used and their definitions were scattered thought out the book, presenting just small portions of their usage and definitions everywhere, and actually made me want to read on just so that I could get the definitive definition.  Although this was not the only reference to multiple brained beings which I had found in various literary works, and found one other reference by an author who has written many works which date back to the 19th century.

     

    #11291
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    MidiChlorian wrote:

    This would be considered a “trinitization” process or technique through varying liquid-light.

    Hi Midi,

    Can you say more about this “liquid light”?

    MidiChlorian wrote:
    (1155.3)105:2.10 6. The Infinite Capacity. I AM static-reactive. This is the endless matrix, the possibility for all future cosmic expansion. This phase of the I AM is perhaps best conceived as the supergravity presence of the Unqualified Absolute.

    Do you have any conceptualizations on “endless matrix”?

    Thanks. Manny

    Manny, I’m working on a response for you – its taking me a little longer since it entails some additional detail to explain my use of liquid-light since it is of my own making, but there is specific reasoning for which I choose this phrase.

    #11292
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    eManny3003, I’m having trouble with the online editor it is stuck in reply mode and can not edit posts, I’m hoping that this will free it up, otherwise I’m working on a response?

    #11297
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    6:7.1 The Eternal Son is that infinite personality from whose unqualified personality fetters the Universal Father escaped by the technique of trinitization, and by virtue of which he has ever since continued to bestow himself in endless profusion upon his ever-expanding universe of Creators and creatures. The Son is absolute personality; God is father personality — the source of personality, the bestower of personality, the cause of personality. Every personal being derives personality from the Universal Father just as the Original Son eternally derives his personality from the Paradise Father.

    The Universal Father and the Eternal Son came into existence at the same exact time (if there ever was time, which there wasn’t), and there was never a time when one was fettered by the other, or existed without the other.  The quote is describing the phenomenon of personality expression.  Personality cannot exist in isolation.  If there is personality then there must be a relationship. Trinitization is that relationship and it is exists as ONE.  The existence of the personality of the Universal Father requires another personality or personalities for the expression of the relationship.  The Universal Father has a relationship with everything and everyone that exists because of the Trinity.

     

    #11324
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    The Universal Father and the Eternal Son came into existence at the same exact time (if there ever was time, which there wasn’t), and there was never a time when one was fettered by the other, or existed without the other.

     

    Then your statement is false, Bonita. You are associating time (“at the same time”) with timelessness. Sadly the English language proves inadequate to capture this relationship between Father and Eternal son.  But the revelators did warn us about language handicaps. In the opening they disclaim that some revelations would be partial or distorted, more or less. The particular revelation in question  is reflected to us as a sequence of events , hence, “time”; Father was “First” held in the infinite personality fetters of Eternal Son. He “Then” applied the technique of trinitization to free himself of this state. “Now” he bestows himself incessantly upon the growing universe.

     

     

    The quote is describing the phenomenon of personality expression. Personality cannot exist in isolation. If there is personality then there must be a relationship.

     

    It says what it says, ” Eternal Son… personality fetters the Universal Father escaped,” which suggests personality struggle to me.

     

    Trinitization is that relationship and it is exists as ONE.

     

    Trinitization is the technique Father applied to escape the personality fetters of Eternal Son. That is what we are told.

     

    The Universal Father has a relationship with everything and everyone that exists because of the Trinity.

     

    I agree. And without applying the technique of trinitization, Father would be stuck in the personality of Eternal Son, and you and I would not be here having this conversation. Seems to me there was “rebellion” of personalities, for lack of a better word.

     

    BB

    #11328
    Avatar
    emanny3003
    Blocked

    Hi BB,

    Then your statement is false, Bonita. You are associating time (“at the same time”) with timelessness. Sadly the English language proves inadequate to capture this relationship between Father and Eternal son.

    It is true that our language is inadequate and I’m not so good with languages. So I understand the difficulties of discussing these eternal and infinite topics on these forums. That is why I have always fallen back on other symbology.

    It is no wonder that the symbol for the Holy Trinity was given to us a three concentric circles by Machiventa Melchezidek.

    Just listen to how I give this symbol meaning.

    There is but one circle possible in the conic sections of Apollonius of Perga. Infinite ellipses and hyperbolas, but only one circle. That one circle is defined as a center with radius. There are infinite radii from a center to the circle. There is only one radius because any line describing a radius is necessarily infinite in length. A line is an ideal idea and has no dimensionality to describe time, space or motion. A line cannot ever be bounded. It is an infinite ideal.

    Therefore, infinite concentric circles are still but one circle because they share but one center and one infinite radius. A compass can draw infinite circles from the positioning of one center. The concentric circles are perpendicularly arranged because the radius intersects its circle at every point at 90 degrees. The Son sits at the right hand of the Father. The Trinity thusly sits at the right hand of each other, “simultaneously”.

    This is the only way that the Trinity can extend from a center in perfect equality and in equal mutual relationships and remain as One.

    I think that this symbol of TUB is one possible way for the finite mind to even begin to grasp concepts of infinity and begin to see three as one.

    Manny

    #11337
    Brooklyn_born
    Brooklyn_born
    Participant

    Hi BB,

    Then your statement is false, Bonita. You are associating time (“at the same time”) with timelessness. Sadly the English language proves inadequate to capture this relationship between Father and Eternal son.

    It is true that our language is inadequate and I’m not so good with languages. So I understand the difficulties of discussing these eternal and infinite topics on these forums. That is why I have always fallen back on other symbology. It is no wonder that the symbol for the Holy Trinity was given to us a three concentric circles by Machiventa Melchezidek. Just listen to how I give this symbol meaning. There is but one circle possible in the conic sections of Apollonius of Perga. Infinite ellipses and hyperbolas, but only one circle. That one circle is defined as a center with radius. There are infinite radii from a center to the circle. There is only one radius because any line describing a radius is necessarily infinite in length. A line is an ideal idea and has no dimensionality to describe time, space or motion. A line cannot ever be bounded. It is an infinite ideal. Therefore, infinite concentric circles are still but one circle because they share but one center and one infinite radius. A compass can draw infinite circles from the positioning of one center. The concentric circles are perpendicularly arranged because the radius intersects its circle at every point at 90 degrees. The Son sits at the right hand of the Father. The Trinity thusly sits at the right hand of each other, “simultaneously”. This is the only way that the Trinity can extend from a center in perfect equality and in equal mutual relationships and remain as One. I think that this symbol of TUB is one possible way for the finite mind to even begin to grasp concepts of infinity and begin to see three as one. Manny

     

    Very interesting take you have here. The idea is strong. Let me ask you something… do you think revelators had to reduce portions of  revelation of infinity to symbols because of the handicaps of time based language? This is what they tell us:

     

    “I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia”

    What is your understanding of the above if I may ask.

    BB

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