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And successful, responsible voting at that level could mean greater and broader voting rights in the future.
Did the Chinese ordinary man vote to make the recent changes to the country’s constitution? Or did they have representatives who voted for them?
. No, and that was answered in my post. But that doesn’t mean it will stay that way forever. It hasn’t been so long since they acquired local elections. All nations will come around to representative, tri-fold governance eventually, according to the authors. But not until we can actually and skillfully handle such freedom. Ben Franklin made a proper and visionary statement once: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.” That well explains the recent trend in the West toward autocratic rule and surly opposition of hard-won freedoms, like calling for restriction of press freedom, pushing for limiting freedom of expression, and consolidating the power of the super-wealthy and their well-entrenched lobbyists.
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Richard E Warren
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”
As Lincoln commanded his blue coats to expand into the west and slaughter, displace and otherwise pave the way for him to become the masters of those vicious redskins?
The triad: “Truth, Beauty and Goodness” is expressed in many different ways in TUB – one is fact, meaning and value. However it is expressed the triad is inseparable. im certain that protesters had science, philosophy and religion foremost on their minds
And I’m sure you had Truth, Beauty and Goodness foremost in your mind when you referred to your fellow human beings as “commie rats” in your earlier post on this thread.
We are all imperfect. We are flawed when we try to express our passionate beliefs; we are flawed when we govern; we are flawed and floundering when we try to exemplify Goodness in our day to day activities. Perhaps having compassion for one another would be good for our country and help in addressing the dangers of democracy.
The triad: “Truth, Beauty and Goodness” is expressed in many different ways in TUB – one is fact, meaning and value. However it is expressed the triad is inseparable. im certain that protesters had science, philosophy and religion foremost on their minds
And I’m sure you had Truth, Beauty and Goodness foremost in your mind when you referred to your fellow human beings as “commie rats” in your earlier post on this thread. We are all imperfect. We are flawed when we try to express our passionate beliefs; we are flawed when we govern; we are flawed and floundering when we try to exemplify Goodness in our day to day activities. Perhaps having compassion for one another would be good for our country and help in addressing the dangers of democracy.
i had compassion for several commie rats that I sent to their maker.
I’m going to repeat myself.
I’m truly finding it hard to believe that anyone who has studied the UB and is devoted to its revelations can ever support (in effect) the status quo of the criminal establishment political class that is being ousted by the ordinary people of our current populist movement, and then describe this as a trend towards autocratic rule.
Please Rick correct me, if I’ve misinterpreted your position.
Bonita wrote:
I’m interested in discussing #4, since that is what protesters claim they are doing, exercising their right to free speech. The quote recommends freedom of all forms of expression. Is that meant to include violence . . . violence in either word or deed?
Isn’t it obvious that violence of any kind would not be recommended? Does anyone really recommend violence as a way of governing people, ideally? We are told in paper 44 that “Harmony is the speech of Havona”. We also know that in paper 132, Jesus is quoted as saying the following to someone who was speaking in the public forum:
If you could only enjoy the inspiring satisfaction of knowing God as your spiritual Father, then you might employ your powers of speech to liberate your fellows from the bondage of darkness and from the slavery of ignorance.
When the freedom of speech involves expressing ideas that others are hostile toward or do not wish to hear, violence can certainly be an outcome. But I don’t think that’s because freedom of speech endorses or condones violence; it’s because human nature resorts to it when stressed and upset.
Edited to add: here is an article in Psychology Today that explains, in part:
“Protests are usually triggered by a social injustice, whether that is an injustice towards an individual or a group. As a protest gets larger, there is an increased chance that there will be a handful of people resorting to violence and destruction. This is just a fact of our society– there are always a small number of people for which antisocial behavior is the norm.
Taking into account crowd psychology, those few violence-prone individuals can trigger a crowd of violent behavior. Groups afford people the anonymity to engage in behavior they wouldn’t engage in otherwise. A group’s behavior is more likely to help an individual justify going outside of their moral code.”
When the freedom of speech involves expressing ideas that others are hostile toward or do not wish to hear, violence can certainly be an outcome.
Exactly! and it is a sure sign of immaturity. This brings us back to Rick’s list of dangers. If the populace lacks self-control, isn’t that evidence of mediocrity? If a person, or group of persons, cannot tolerate other people expressing their opinions without emotional outbursts, then that person, or group of persons, is immature, mediocre, poorly educated and indolent (lacking self-control). That’s what they call a mob, and I see absolutely no excuse for it. If people are going to go out and express themselves with passion, then they need to have control over their emotions. Freedom of expression is not just a one-way exercise either, it requires tolerance of others expressing themselves, even if they give expression to everything you despise. The universe allowed Lucifer and his minions to express themselves without a single temper tantrum. It’s irresponsible to chalk immaturity up to animal spirits, which is nothing more than scapegoating . . . childish.
Our culture seems to glorify the immature. When grown-ups arrive on the scene, they are vilified, criticized and condemned for not being open minded and tolerant, (which is exactly what my pre-teen children used to whine about when I laid down the hammer). We are experiencing a very vocal generation of unusually immature young adults who have been taught that their feelings have vital importance. Social media has sensationalized puerile outbursts and insipid whining to levels of unparalleled gravity and this is rather destabilizing, which is why I think Rick may be feeling so pessimistic. He is correct in that the Asian cultures glorify their older generations, which are presumably more mature. In that regard they do have the upper hand, but even that is not without its own significant problems.
“Protests are usually triggered by a social injustice, whether that is an injustice towards an individual or a group.”
I think many protests are triggered by perceived causes of social injustices. Some are simply fallacious.
86:7.4 But while men are giving up the erroneous doctrine of a spirit cause of the vicissitudes of life, they exhibit a surprising willingness to accept an almost equally fallacious teaching which bids them attribute all human inequalities to political misadaptation, social injustice, and industrial competition. But new legislation, increasing philanthropy, and more industrial reorganization, however good in and of themselves, will not remedy the facts of birth and the accidents of living. Only comprehension of facts and wise manipulation within the laws of nature will enable man to get what he wants and to avoid what he does not want. Scientific knowledge, leading to scientific action, is the only antidote for so-called accidental ills.
I do want to apologize for allowing old resentments to come out with feelings and emotions that show my immaturity.
thank those that are here who participate on a higher level.
This isn’t happening.
(763.2) 68:0.2 Civilization is a racial acquirement; it is not biologically inherent; hence must all children be reared in an environment of culture, while each succeeding generation of youth must receive anew its education. The superior qualities of civilization — scientific, philosophic, and religious — are not transmitted from one generation to another by direct inheritance. These cultural achievements are preserved only by the enlightened conservation of social inheritance
multiculturalism kills this in its tracks.
beyond not passing on the superior qualities of our civilization, it’s getting harder to find people with basic skills that have nothing to do with smart phones or computers.
In fact, the interest in basic skills is just about nonexistent in millennials
one day people may need to re-figure how to make flint tools.
Fascinating discussion.
Rick, could you please give us some details on why China could become the next super power?
I recently had a discussion with someone from China and he was hoping to recruit Americans in the battle within China regarding human rights violations. Specifically, the forced removal of human organs from the prison population. If you are in need of a kidney, you’re on a waiting list but, not in China… you can get that organ in short order.
I’m puzzled how any country that does not allow freedom of religion could become a super power.
It seems to me that the main reason the United States has been the world leader is directly related to the fact that we have adopted, as our own, the world’s most progressive religion as our foundation.
Just like you, I’m really appalled at the trends I see happening in our nation. However, I can’t say that these trends are pandemic or that they are lasting. I just don’t know. Maybe you could elaborate more about the plight of the country as you see it.
I am fascinated by the idea of another country with the ability to displace the US. What do they have going for them? Prior to this thread I was of the opinion that China was worse than Russia from a political ethics standpoint. No regard for intellectual property rights, human rights, environmental protection, etc.
Am I wrong when I am of the opinion that regardless of what country you compare us to, it is still the USA that plays by the rules far and above our allies or enemies. Did we not make the rules? We set the standards during wartime and our press holds us under the microscope while our enemies commit war crimes with impunity. Just one example.
So, that’s what I’m thinking. Somehow, our internal struggles–the battle of the right and left. The expansion of the debt and deficit, the problems with wealth divisions and all, seem to be inherent in the modern era. Struggles indicative of the pace of progress– and I don’t know or think that they are catastrophic.
I’m not a news junkie, too much sensationalism for my taste and far too much lean towards “If it bleeds it reads” for me to be interested. Perhaps you could educate us on what you’ve discovered that impresses you about China.
I have read through the entire thread, I hope I haven’t missed something.
Thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul,
I hope and pray you are right, and I am wrong, for the sake of the unbroken dissemination of the revelation in all the major languages, and for the welfare of my and everyone else’s grandchildren everywhere.
We agree about the short-sighted, designedly inflammatory news, but there are competent and reliable news sources that offer deeper insights, like Charlie Rose’s hour long program of interviews that features well informed men and women from the trenches, ones who have proven records of prescience and intelligent discernment. And not for a three minute sound-bite, sometimes for a whole hour. The PBS Newshour is another source that offers in-depth reports without the need-to-bleed. Nearly all the qualified insider experts see China uniting and the West dividing, notwithstanding each sides’ more atrocious faults and behaviors. Consider not just the US and the barren hollowness of the now dominant capitalistic profit motivation, but also England breaking away from Europe, the near civil war in Spain, the reemergence of fascism in Germany, and several other countries there, like Hungary, Poland, et al.
Since this thread was intended to be about the importance of the Chinese translation of the UB, I wish not to belabor the current political and cultural differences between East and West any more than I already have. Or risk dividing this Forum and alienate my dear siblings here, that they may take up the call for translations rather than be divided over national interests and policies. Suffice it to say, regardless of global trends, your point about China’s religious inadequacies begs for the truths and facts of the revelation we already have in hand. It is our solemn and sacred responsibility to see that all the world’s nations, like Anglophone nations, have easy access to the Urantia Papers, in order that their citizens’ indwelling Adjusters and attending angels can lead them to the truths we know and have been entrusted to share.
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Richard E Warren
I’ll be the devils advocate
I do not see fascism in Germany, I see nationalism. I see it as the motivator that is driving England and other nations in Europe to break away from the EU and or push for independence.
i also see very strong nationalism in China, and-nationalism is the reason China Is more successful at uniting. multiculturalism and open borders is the American path to division.
people like their own race, heritage, history and culture and want to maintain it. Racial blending will not be forced and be successful.
Ill ask the question: Why was the Urantia book revealed in English? Are we absolutely certain that translations to other languages are 100% accurate? Should the revelation be translated to other languages? Was that the intention of the authors or the efforts of people who are a little on the fanatic side and want to do the non doable?? Was translations the correct approach to spreading the word?
Personally I do not trust PBS. If you want to get a good idea of media truth telling try this: read our presidents tweets, listen to his speeches and pay attention to what he does. Now listen to all of the news media channels and make your decision about who relays accurate information.
I’ll add this disclaimer about relaying accurate information: I took a speech class ages ago, the basic types of speech are persuasive and informative. The challenge was to give a speech that was purely informative. I think it is almost impossible.
I’ll be the devils advocate I do not see fascism in Germany, I see nationalism. I see it as the motivator that is driving England and other nations in Europe to break away from the EU and or push for independence. i also see very strong nationalism in China, and-nationalism is the reason China Is more successful at uniting. multiculturalism and open borders is the American path to division. people like their own race, heritage, history and culture and want to maintain it. Racial blending will not be forced and be successful. Ill ask the question: Why was the Urantia book revealed in English? Are we absolutely certain that translations to other languages are 100% accurate? Should the revelation be translated to other languages? Was that the intention of the authors or the efforts of people who are a little on the fanatic side and want to do the non doable?? Was translations the correct approach to spreading the word? Personally I do not trust PBS. If you want to get a good idea of media truth telling try this: read our presidents tweets, listen to his speeches and pay attention to what he does. Now listen to all of the news media channels and make your decision about who relays accurate information. I’ll add this disclaimer about relaying accurate information: I took a speech class ages ago, the basic types of speech are persuasive and informative. The challenge was to give a speech that was purely informative. I think it is almost impossible.
as capitalism is being deamonized, let’s do a poll: name your favorite ism.
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