Service

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  • #29247
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    Gene
    Participant

    I’ll make an anology about my service thoughts more related to material stuff:
    I have two careers – piano technology and wastewater treatment. Over 4 decades I have taken on several apprentice and it is easy to try to give all of the tools and experience all at once and expect the newbie to become just like me as opposed to learning about the individuals needs, their learning process, their capacity, how and when to introduce to new skills at the right time so the person begins to develope themselves and be what they are as opposed to what I am.
    Make any sense?

    #29248
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    I’ve heard some people say they like doing social service because it makes them feel good. That’s a humungous red flag right there. Stay away from that kind of service, the kind that makes you feel good. Feeling good and being good aren’t the same thing. Feeling good is part of the kingdom of good, which falls way short of the kingdom of God, which is being good (and true goodness is unconscious). It comes down to the social fruit vs. spiritual fruit thing . . . attempting to graft one’s own desires onto the true vine with the hope of stealing it’s mojo juice.

    102:7.4 True, many apparently religious traits can grow out of nonreligious roots. Man can, intellectually, deny God and yet be morally good, loyal, filial, honest, and even idealistic. Man may graft many purely humanistic branches onto his basic spiritual nature and thus apparently prove his contentions in behalf of a godless religion, but such an experience is devoid of survival values, God-knowingness and God-ascension. In such a mortal experience only social fruits are forthcoming, not spiritual. The graft determines the nature of the fruit, notwithstanding that the living sustenance is drawn from the roots of original divine endowment of both mind and spirit.

    2:5.12 When man loses sight of the love of a personal God, the kingdom of God becomes merely the kingdom of good.

    Yes, very well said with great supporting quotes. I need to get into the quote thing.

    #29249
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Agree, as long as we are in a world where our basic material needs are satisfied. Hunger, thirst, direct threat to life have a way of putting us in survival mode – animal style.

    Only for those folks who haven’t discovered what true survival is all about.  If they’re still putting all their hopes in the material aspects of life, then they’re missing out on reality and that emptiness can make a person cranky and miserable. What does it matter if all things material are taken away from the person who has a love affair with their own soul and the person living there? Consider the lilies of the field . . . etc., etc..

    100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

    176:3.2 What does it matter to you who believe this gospel of the kingdom if nations overturn, the age ends, or all things visible crash, since you know that your life is the gift of the Son, and that it is eternally secure in the Father? Having lived the temporal life by faith and having yielded the fruits of the spirit as the righteousness of loving service for your fellows, you can confidently look forward to the next step in the eternal career with the same survival faith that has carried you through your first and earthly adventure in sonship with God.

    165:5.3 Let me assure you, once and for all, that, if you dedicate your lives to the work of the kingdom, all your real needs shall be supplied. Seek the greater thing, and the lesser will be found therein; ask for the heavenly, and the earthly shall be included. The shadow is certain to follow the substance.

     

     

     

    #29250
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I’ll make an anology about my service thoughts more related to material stuff: I have two careers – piano technology and wastewater treatment. Over 4 decades I have taken on several apprentice and it is easy to try to give all of the tools and experience all at once and expect the newbie to become just like me as opposed to learning about the individuals needs, their learning process, their capacity, how and when to introduce to new skills at the right time so the person begins to develope themselves and be what they are as opposed to what I am. Make any sense?

    Well, that sounds like teaching to me.  There will always be the right way to do something, and it’s our job to learn what it is.  That’s what wisdom is all about, right.  The source of all wisdom lives in your head.  You can be a great teacher if you let The Teacher guide you . . . speaking in platitudes now, sorry.  What I’m trying to say is that no matter what, your very best efforts begin with the inner life. If you make your life a living prayer, chances are you won’t worry so much about the other picayune stuff.  It’ll become a habit, an unconscious flowing of goodness from inside you to another person.  You won’t even know it’s happening until it’s done, then you say to yourself, “Whoa, that was cool! How’d that happen? . . . Thanks God!”  Seen it with my own eyes.

    #29251
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    Agree, as long as we are in a world where our basic material needs are satisfied. Hunger, thirst, direct threat to life have a way of putting us in survival mode – animal style.

    Only for those folks who haven’t discovered what true survival is all about. If they’re still putting all their hopes in the material aspects of life, then they’re missing out on reality and that emptiness can make a person cranky and miserable. What does it matter if all things material are taken away from the person who has a love affair with their own soul and the person living there? Consider the lilies of the field . . . etc., etc..

    100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

    176:3.2 What does it matter to you who believe this gospel of the kingdom if nations overturn, the age ends, or all things visible crash, since you know that your life is the gift of the Son, and that it is eternally secure in the Father? Having lived the temporal life by faith and having yielded the fruits of the spirit as the righteousness of loving service for your fellows, you can confidently look forward to the next step in the eternal career with the same survival faith that has carried you through your first and earthly adventure in sonship with God.

    165:5.3 Let me assure you, once and for all, that, if you dedicate your lives to the work of the kingdom, all your real needs shall be supplied. Seek the greater thing, and the lesser will be found therein; ask for the heavenly, and the earthly shall be included. The shadow is certain to follow the substance.

    And Jesus saw the cross coming a long time prior to the event and did not get into self defense mode.
    Most people are not on this level.
    I think we would like to be but when faced with similar realities – I know how people react.

    #29252
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I think we would like to be but when faced with similar realities – I know how people react.

    I don’t know.  What about all those amazing people in Houston this past Fall  who had everything destroyed but went out and helped other people instead of wallowing in their own disappointments and fears? I think there are a lot of people like that. It only takes a few screaming, whining, fit-throwing groups of people to make it seem like the whole world is crazy.  It is not . . . It is frequently backwards though, that I’ll say.

    #29253
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    I think we would like to be but when faced with similar realities – I know how people react.

    I don’t know. What about all those amazing people in Houston this past Fall who had everything destroyed but went out and helped other people instead of wallowing in their own disappointments and fears? I think there are a lot of people like that. It only takes a few screaming, whining, fit-throwing groups of people to make it seem like the whole world is crazy. It is not . . . It is frequently backwards though, that I’ll say.

    Good example, good reminder of human potential and the fact that we should never loose faith in our brothers and sisters.

    #29254
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    I think we would like to be but when faced with similar realities – I know how people react.

    I don’t know. What about all those amazing people in Houston this past Fall who had everything destroyed but went out and helped other people instead of wallowing in their own disappointments and fears? I think there are a lot of people like that. It only takes a few screaming, whining, fit-throwing groups of people to make it seem like the whole world is crazy. It is not . . . It is frequently backwards though, that I’ll say.

    Good example, good reminder of human potential and the fact that we should never loose faith in our brothers and sisters.

    On second thought and here I go again with subtle distinctions: for those who were hurt by the hurricane, lost everything, even their own lives, they did not go down without a fight because they were indeed put into self defense mode.

    #29255
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    So when the statement comes up about “what does it matter if all earthly things crash” how did the hurricane victims deal with this?

    They didn’t.

    So maybe we are better at being hero’s and doing unselfish service as opposed to being victims?

    Just thinking

    Recall that many hurricane hero’s put their lives in danger.

    #29256
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    So in regard to Jesus allowing himself to be betrayed and murdered in regard to non interference and all things earthly statement: was Jesus hero of victim? I say hero.
    His fight was for things spiritual

    #29257
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    No need Gene to use “search engine” if you do the search and back-up your assertions.

    Most every participants do like that. We do it, to spare the lector undue investigations.

    Sooo why not Gene roll up sleeves and pass through 131 / 132 / 133 and become a courageous, firm searcher instead leave an incomplete opinion and overcome this flaw.

    Here is my example:

    127:6.12 He is becoming experienced in the skillful wresting of victory from the very jaws of defeat.

    Hey Andre
    Thinking more about this: I suppose I’m the type that finds it not only easier but more rewarding to talk about the revelation as opposed to quoting it. Probably – (beyond being lazy and computer ignorant) – why I find it difficult to study in such a way that I can locate information with ease. If that makes any sense.

    #29258
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    On second thought and here I go again with subtle distinctions: for those who were hurt by the hurricane, lost everything, even their own lives, they did not go down without a fight because they were indeed put into self defense mode.

    We are dual natured creatures. We have the fight or flight mechanism built into our machinery, put there by God.  It can’t be turned off except by decerebration . . . not something I’m interested in.  However, it can be overridden by extraordinary self-control, a high level of wisdom and an undying faith.  There are folks who willingly give up their own life in order to save others . . . diving onto a live grenade comes to mind.   Then there’s that beautiful image of the caveman protecting his family from a saber-toothed tiger(100:4.5). The authors see that guy’s fight as noble.  Also, self-protection seems to be okay with the universe.  Wasn’t that the reason for the quarantine?

    #29259
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    So in regard to Jesus allowing himself to be betrayed and murdered in regard to non interference and all things earthly statement: was Jesus hero of victim? I say hero. His fight was for things spiritual.

    John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

    (1575.6) 140:5.21 So often persecution does follow peace. But young people and brave adults never shun difficulty or danger. “Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his friends.” And a fatherly love can freely do all these things — things which brotherly love can hardly encompass. And progress has always been the final harvest of persecution.

    (1944.6) 180:1.3 When I invite you to love one another, even as I have loved you, I hold up before you the supreme measure of true affection, for greater love can no man have than this: that he will lay down his life for his friends.

    (2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

     

    #29260
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Hi Gene, No need Gene to use “search engine” if you do the search and back-up your assertions. Most every participants do like that. We do it, to spare the lector undue investigations. Sooo why not Gene roll up sleeves and pass through 131 / 132 / 133 and become a courageous, firm searcher instead leave an incomplete opinion and overcome this flaw. Here is my example: 127:6.12 He is becoming experienced in the skillful wresting of victory from the very jaws of defeat.

    Hey Andre Thinking more about this: I suppose I’m the type that finds it not only easier but more rewarding to talk about the revelation as opposed to quoting it. Probably – (beyond being lazy and computer ignorant) – why I find it difficult to study in such a way that I can locate information with ease. If that makes any sense.

    Greetings Gene!

    While what you say does make sense and I understand the perspective, please remember that this is a study group of the UB and that no one is more eloquent in the teachings than the authors themselves.  Discussion of contents is just dandy….so far as it goes….but often tends to skew and distort through the filter of personal perspective, bias, memory, and understanding….each and all of which offers its own form of subjective distortions.  So I would support Andre in his encouragement to be a student and do the work to evaluate your memories and understanding by a rigorous comparison to the actual text and teachings and/or to post text or cite quotes in text.  Bonita does both…and I confess myself I prefer her postings of text due to my own laziness of looking up her references, which I almost always do too!

    While a student’s opinions are very relevant to a discussion, not so much in true study I don’t think.  The text is clearly written with great redundancy within the most wonderfully written text ever known.  It’s good to know that which is written thusly as the important work that the UB is.  Such knowledge should inspire us to implement and experience that which is discovered thereby.  I doubt if over time our opinions ABOUT the Revelation will or might keep up with the changes in understanding by reading and studying the text delivers.

    As the gospel of Jesus and the gospel about Jesus differ so profoundly, the UB’s text and discussions about it may also suffer in form, truth, and accuracy.  Such study also reduces those opinions which conflict or even contradict the Revelation which greatly serves the discussion and the study.  For 30 years, for me, all study was by reading only plus the old Concordex index….no need today to be a master scholar with 2000 page recall to find topics and quotes with all the search engines, indexes, etc. today.  Which is great for topical study for sure…but I wonder if today’s and future readers will actually read the whole text multiple times and gain scholarship as in the days of my youth?  Digitization is a two edged sword I think…..A little lazy indeed!

    Please consider this simple encouragement to greater studies, comprehension, and utilization of the teachings.

    ;-)

    #29261
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    Hi Gene, No need Gene to use “search engine” if you do the search and back-up your assertions. Most every participants do like that. We do it, to spare the lector undue investigations. Sooo why not Gene roll up sleeves and pass through 131 / 132 / 133 and become a courageous, firm searcher instead leave an incomplete opinion and overcome this flaw. Here is my example: 127:6.12 He is becoming experienced in the skillful wresting of victory from the very jaws of defeat.

    Hey Andre Thinking more about this: I suppose I’m the type that finds it not only easier but more rewarding to talk about the revelation as opposed to quoting it. Probably – (beyond being lazy and computer ignorant) – why I find it difficult to study in such a way that I can locate information with ease. If that makes any sense.

    Greetings Gene!

    While what you say does make sense and I understand the perspective, please remember that this is a study group of the UB and that no one is more eloquent in the teachings than the authors themselves. Discussion of contents is just dandy….so far as it goes….but often tends to skew and distort through the filter of personal perspective, bias, memory, and understanding….each and all of which offers its own form of subjective distortions. So I would support Andre in his encouragement to be a student and do the work to evaluate your memories and understanding by a rigorous comparison to the actual text and teachings and/or to post text or cite quotes in text. Bonita does both…and I confess myself I prefer her postings of text due to my own laziness of looking up her references, which I almost always do too!

    While a student’s opinions are very relevant to a discussion, not so much in true study I don’t think. The text is clearly written with great redundancy within the most wonderfully written text ever known. It’s good to know that which is written thusly as the important work that the UB is. Such knowledge should inspire us to implement and experience that which is discovered thereby. I doubt if over time our opinions ABOUT the Revelation will or might keep up with the changes in understanding by reading and studying the text delivers.

    As the gospel of Jesus and the gospel about Jesus differ so profoundly, the UB’s text and discussions about it may also suffer in form, truth, and accuracy. Such study also reduces those opinions which conflict or even contradict the Revelation which greatly serves the discussion and the study. For 30 years, for me, all study was by reading only plus the old Concordex index….no need today to be a master scholar with 2000 page recall to find topics and quotes with all the search engines, indexes, etc. today. Which is great for topical study for sure…but I wonder if today’s and future readers will actually read the whole text multiple times and gain scholarship as in the days of my youth? Digitization is a two edged sword I think…..A little lazy indeed!

    Please consider this simple encouragement to greater studies, comprehension, and utilization of the teachings.

    ;-)

    I understand completely

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