Reincarnation

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  • #26337
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    Keryn
    Participant

    I’m getting the distinct impression that Ragathea was being disingenuous with this statement and that she doesn’t feel confused at all (although, in truth, confusion is exactly what is happening); rather, posted this thread with the specific intent of convincing others that her memories of past lives are explained in TUB.—- Bradly You do not know me, you do not know anything about me, yet you somehow presume to know what my motivations are. Perhaps my virtual silence throughout this thread has spoken wrongly to you. First, before I continue, I would like to clue you in as to a little bit about me. …

    Ragathea,

    Please do not blame Bradley.  I am the one who posted those words.  I see that it has greatly upset you but, believe me, I read every word of your posts and it seems to me that Bonita’s well-explained reasoning was completely disregarded as you continually posted more and more justification for your speculation about pre-birth memories (I apologize for getting it wrong by mistakenly representing it as ‘past life memories’ – my mistake.  They seem kinda the same to me, though.)

    In any case, you certainly spent your fair share of pixels expressing your disdain of my comments and that is certainly your prerogative.  Just a piece of morontia mota that came to my mind as I was reading your lengthy treatise:

    48:7.30 (557.14) 28. The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained.

    I am not saying that I think what you wrote is not true – not at all!  It was clearly heartfelt and was an intimate look into your life and I do not mean to belittle that.  It’s just that you seem to have a very high opinion of your speculations about the TUB and pre-birth memories, so why bother coming here to ask about it?

    #26343
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I only brought that up because, I wondered what you were like before that, and why your current demeanor seems to be so angry, at least in my opinion.  Where, if one would follow Jesus’ teachings and with what the Urantia Book indicates about being merciful, it just didn’t pan out as being the real person behind the narrations presented.  Again, just my opinion from observation.

    I’m only a grizzly, grumpy gorgon to you , the one who constantly complains about being bullied.  Personally, I’m sick to death of your personal attacks, which would indicate that you have a little bit of psychic circle business to get down to yourself.  So like I said, get over yourself, will you?

    And to the others who read this forum.  I have always tried to illustrate where  takes license with the Revelation for the sake of the record, but I will no longer do that.  If  misrepresents the Revelation, someone else will have to make corrections to the record because I am no longer interested in doing so.

     

    #26344
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Thank you Keryn for the clarification!

    Midi…shall we all say what our opinions are of your mental state and your personal medical background you have posted publicly?  Bonita is not angry…or certainly not most of the time and when she is it is by provocation….often it is YOUR provocation and purposeful with bad motive and intent.  I’ve already recommended you let sleeping dogs lie and stop poking bears in the eye.  Wasted words evidently.  And your post did not include ANY inquiry as to Bonita’s earlier state of mind vs. current….you obviously are seeking to discredit her, not to understand her.  Let me tell you that words have meaning….and your words speak plenty about you over the years as you are none too clever with your insinuations.  Drop it!  And Stop it!  This last shenanigan would get you terminated here if my opinion mattered (and it doesn’t).

    Ragathea/Karen…..I am so very distressed by your last post.  I hope I can explain.  I intended to give agreement to Keryn’s suggestion that we had floundered on rocky ground and not making forward progress.  My intention was to inclusively bring up two other avenues of discussion that were related to the topic.  I did not mean to accuse you of anything at all.  Human memory is certainly fallible.  All humans construct and reconstruct their lifelong memories….not all certainly but plenty to be sure.  This is not personal.  The false and imbedded memory information from wiki was not a diagnosis of you or anyone at all….it was to introduce two more issues to consider – the inherent ability of mind and brain to create illusions and delusions and the very tricky functionality of memory.  Not yours.  Everybody’s.

    Being new here, you may not know of the Reply & Quote button functions?  They can be confusing.  In your case, since you did a “Quote” from my post that included a “Quote” from a prior post and a different poster, it does indeed appear that it was my voice you responded to.

    For me….no harm, no foul.  = )

    I’m glad to hear of your scientific and clinical experience….but I have never thought you anything but rational, logical, and reasonable.

    I must confess you offer the group a challenge….not you personally or even your subjects of inquiry.  But as students, I think we all do wish to allow the UB to speak for itself and do so without presenting any….my way or the highway demands of conformity for those new(er) in the UB.  Every single student must and cannot help but begin our reading with our own set of concepts and perspective on God, the universe, truth, fact, mystery, and priority in our study.  What you present is not atypical or unreasonable.  Au contraire!!

    It is unfortunate that we reached this place this way….it was not intentional.  But for me, I can be very clumsy and insensitive and am likely to step on toes if not bruise shins by my clumsiness.

    I hope you choose to stay and get better acquainted with the group…and especially the Urantia Book.  Either way….best wishes upon the Pilgrim’s Path to Paradise!!!

    :good:

    #26345
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    I only brought that up because, I wondered what you were like before that, and why your current demeanor seems to be so angry, at least in my opinion. Where, if one would follow Jesus’ teachings and with what the Urantia Book indicates about being merciful, it just didn’t pan out as being the real person behind the narrations presented. Again, just my opinion from observation.

    I’m only a grizzly, grumpy gorgon to you , the one who constantly complains about being bullied. Personally, I’m sick to death of your personal attacks, which would indicate that you have a little bit of psychic circle business to get down to yourself. So like I said, get over yourself, will you? And to the others who read this forum. I have always tried to illustrate where  takes license with the Revelation for the sake of the record, but I will no longer do that. If  misrepresents the Revelation, someone else will have to make corrections to the record because I am no longer interested in doing so.

    Bonita….it would be most unfortunate if you cease unraveling these contrivances of Caligastia/Midi.  He has an agenda.  It’s a dangerous one.  He intends for all others to doubt, fear, suspect, mistrust, and twist in the same wind he twists in.  This agenda has been on continuous display on multiple sites for many years.  Frankly, I can’t understand half his sentences or paragraphs as constructed.  But  has explained his own medical and mental health issues and history and his dark view of the world and the universe are more readily understood than his methodical twisting and tormenting and misrepresentation of the Papers.

    I would hope this latest stunt of his gets proper attention and response.  My opinion is he is no friend of the Revelation or any student body seeking to share, learn, and understand the UB.  His focus is on gaining audience, not gaining understanding.  To him and according to him, the UB is a great mystery requiring his form of keen mind and ability to understand what the authors really mean and what they really wrote.  Thus, his great discomfort anytime I point out….the UB says what it says and it don’t say what it don’t say.

    Getting real tired of Caligastia being hosted on this site!  Glad to hear others explain how this so called student is helpful to anything or anyone here.   Hahahah….listen to me rant and rave.   Oh dear.  There’s probably a kinder way to say that, but I can’t think of one right now!

    :-(

    #26348
    Avatar
    Keryn
    Participant

    Okay, so backing up a bit.  The title of this thread that you started is “Reincarnation”.  Which is typically understood as the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.

    As a child, after reading the books of the three doctors discussed above, I came to believe that humans indeed have had multiple lives on earth, linearly, or consecutively. The number of patients these Dr’s had number in the thousands, and many of them, strangers to each other, spoke of identical experiences. In addition, a study was done at UVA that is the largest study of children regarding past lives, and also favored the concept. Some of the stories gave me chills. So basically, this was enough for me to accept the belief in reincarnation.

    But then, further on in the discussion, you wrote:

    … Firstly, you clearly did not read my posts thoroughly. If you had, you would see that I said I DO NOT HAVE PAST LIFE MEMORIES, BUT MEMORIES FROM PRE-BIRTH IN THIS LIFE. Said another way… MEMORIES OF HAPPENINGS BEFORE I WAS BORN HERE….happenings NOT ON EARTH, so how could they be past life memories? Memories that would lead me to believe I was preparing to come here, TRAVELING to come to the “place where we could be born.” And I use quotes because this is the way I would describe it after I could talk and tell family members. The times I would ponder these memories could only have been at age 3 or less (this I know because other details related to these ponderings happened in a house we moved out of when I was 3 years old). Secondly, my memories were an afterthought, Bradly. I don’t know what mistrustful operations you must have going on inside yourself, but I can tell you my motivation was focused solely on the desire to understand the Urantia Book’s content on reincarnation….

     

    “Memories of pre-birth in this life” and “happenings not on Earth” is not reincarnation; it’s something else.  I am not sure what it is we are supposed to be discussing …?

     

    #26353
    Avatar
    nelsong
    Participant

    Troll feeding is analogous to enabling a junkie.

    Anybody listening???

    Healers especially can have bleeding hearts that do nothing but harm.

    #26354
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    “Memories of pre-birth in this life” and “happenings not on Earth” is not reincarnation; it’s something else.  I am not sure what it is we are supposed to be discussing …?

    Don’t both reincarnation and pre-birth memories have at least one thing in common: Belief in the pre-existence of the soul?  I’ve tried at least a zillion different ways to explain why that can’t be, but I think most people who believe in it are not even close to being ready to give it up or open their minds to other options.  And I’m not sure it matters in the long run.  It’s the wheat and tares kinda thing, don’t you think?

    #26355
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Bonita….it would be most unfortunate if you cease unraveling these contrivances of Caligastia/Midi.

    Bradly, I’m so appalled by his last post that I’m nauseated.  I can’t even read his posts anymore.  I see no need to willingly expose myself to such evil.  We all have our issues, that’s for sure, but this is well over the top.  Houston, we have a problem.

    #26363
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Gee….feeling a little overwhelmed…mostly by that job description!!!!!  Hahahahaha….  ;-)

    Think I’ll follow your lead Bonita and Nelsong’s sage advice.  Shunning may be best.

    I am most grateful and humble to serve as another unpaid volunteer servant in the Association, dedicated to the dissemination of the Revelation to the world.  Those who serve on the International Service Board are a dedicated and inspiring group to work with, from 8 different countries and speaking at least as many languages, all with serious service and professional credentials, none of whom receive any form of compensation (monetary compensation that is!), and each serving as the Chair for one or more service committees that include hundreds of volunteer servants too.  The committees and the leadership provide awesome team building and team execution opportunities for those who wish to work together with others to deliver the UB and its teachings to the world.

    The ISB and its many committees serve the priorities and projects approved by the Representative Council, made up of the Presidents and VP’s of the National Associations around the globe.  And those represent all the Local Association members.  It’s a grass roots, bottom up organization designed to express the service priorities of each Association and its local members.  And we are all very busy indeed!  Anyone interested should read all about it right here at this website.  We publicly post every Annual Financial Statement and the Finance Committee is well represented by professional bookkeeping and CPA services in the committee.  All financials are reviewed annually and all income reports to the IRS and State of Ill. are prepared and filed by an independent CPA firm under contract for many years.

    The ISB is primarily charged with the creation of professional infrastructure that can deliver systems and resources to every committee, study group, association, and member.   The results are impressive.  And the potential and need are ever growing.  We grow.  And could always use more volunteers and more funding (all of which comes by members of Associations and friends of the Revelation.  Might as well us this for a plug!!

    I had joined the Forum and posted for years before convincing myself to offer my own professional expertise as a volunteer on the President’s Fund Raising Committee.  From that position I was then asked to serve as CFO for the ISB.  Took much prayer and reflection before I accepted such responsibilities.  What a blessing!  And of course, I do not speak for any other person and certainly not for any group of others or any organization.  My voice was here long before I volunteered.

    A shout out to a very particular committee – the Communications Committee has many roles but this website is one of its best results in my humble opinion.  Indeed, Invisionzone Forum brought me many dear friends and mentors whom I will cherish forever.  Hats off to all who serve dissemination of the Revelation to every corner of Urantia!!   Cheers!

    :-)

     

    #26364
    Avatar
    Keryn
    Participant

    Bradly,

    Thank you for your extensive time and efforts in service and your willingness to take on that overwhelming job description!  :-)    You are much loved and admired on this forum and elsewhere.  I, for one, am very grateful for your contributions here.

    #26368
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I’ll ditto what Keryn said.  Many, many thanks to Bradly and all who dedicate themselves in service.

    #26383
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Don’t think I’ll discuss integrity with you Caligastia.

    As to my professional credentials and skills, that’s 30+ years.  UB student – 40+.  First volunteer service in the Brotherhood – 35 yrs. ago.  First volunteer service in the Fellowship – 27 yrs. ago.  Member and volunteer with Association 2013.  Foruming since 2012 as noted.

    As my CFO duties take over 300 hours unpaid yearly, this is time taken from my professional practice and family – and no, my business does no business with any other UB student, group, or organization.

    I am a fiduciary steward in my role at UAI.  I take that responsibility very seriously.

    As does every leader and volunteer in the Association.  The blessings of sincere service are their own reward.  No one serves because they have money or receives money for their service.  Some might think the personal cost and sacrifice high for service…until they reap the sweet success of struggle and teamwork to serve others in need.  We who disseminate think the world needs this Revelation.  Thanks for asking.

    #26384
    Avatar
    chucksmith1982
    Participant

    I haven’t read much of this thread, but what’s up with the sparring? “In this corner… Gentlemen, you both know the rules. This fight will last one round. Last one standing wins the fight! Fighting will continue until there is a winner determined by knock out! Ready… Begin!” I thought we were supposed to be studying The Urantia Book? This reminds me of the infighting and outfighting that takes place both within and between Christian denominations. Children, do you need to be sepperated?

    Enough with the sarcasm. But in all honesty, sometimes that is what some of the posters on this forum remind me of… children who do not get their own way and whine about it to anyone who will give them half an ear… or barring that, they will take a whole ear… if not both ears. This forum is supposed to be about studying The Urantia Book. Let’s get back to that and stop the verbal sparring shall we? By some of the comments in this thread I’d hate for some of you to actually live within driving distance lest the verbal sparring become physical!

    #26385
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Don’t think I’ll discuss integrity with you Caligastia.

    Bradly, do you actually think that I am “Caligastia”? Although the UB does indicate that he is still around, but do you think that he would appear in physical form, or as I see it, your just calling me the devil.  That certainly does not reflect the attitude of the UAI, or am I mistaken?

    As does every leader and volunteer in the Association.

    I assume you are talking about: “I take that responsibility very seriously.” Which is fine, but I don’t see the other leader or volunteer, as in your type of position, here on the forum, telling someone that they have made their mission in life, to attack me for my opinions on dissemination of what I think the UB is presenting.  In your various personal presentation toward thoughts or opinion, regardless of how I may word them, you seem to present me with what I have felt to be “it’s your way or the highway”, and then to tell me that you will not debate me, where there was a short time where you did seem too, indicates that you truly think me the devil?  If that’s the case, it would appear that you have a problem?  Don’t know, you will not talk about it with me, so it must be personal?

    We who disseminate think the world needs this Revelation.

    What makes you think that I do not think that the world needs the Urantia Book.  And, who is to say that your way of dissemination is a valid method?  Does not the Urantia Book stand on its own, and not need defending?  However, there are many truths within the Book which cannot be disseminated without analysis?  Not everyone, understands TUB the way you do or appear too, yet it appears as if, when someone presents a different approach, you deem them to be the devil.  Did you ever think that someone else actually knows more about what is in the UB, then you do?  I guess we’ll never know, because you will not allow it?  Who made you God?

    #26388
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    I’m getting the distinct impression that Ragathea was being disingenuous with this statement and that she doesn’t feel confused at all (although, in truth, confusion is exactly what is happening); rather, posted this thread with the specific intent of convincing others that her memories of past lives are explained in TUB.—- Bradly

    You do not know me, you do not know anything about me, yet you somehow presume to know what my motivations are. Perhaps my virtual silence throughout this thread has spoken wrongly to you. First, before I continue, I would like to clue you in as to a little bit about me. I am 43 years old. I am a Registered Nurse, graduating with highest honors in the BSN program. I taught pre-health sciences at a local university. I published my first novel in 2013, and when I get time, I will complete the second. I have one daughter, who is 12. Now for the not so mundane…. Addison’s is only one of a slew of autoimmune diseases I have been blessed with, making it difficult to function much of the time due to extremely low blood pressure and a severe case of depression (probably related to the combo of Addison’s, Hashimoto’s, vitiligo, psoriasis, pernicious anemia, and whatever other gland or organ my immune system has decided to destroy since my last dr. visit). In addition to failing health, some recent blessings have been the following….. I lost my beautiful sister in a car accident the same day my mother was diagnosed with bilateral breast cancer, my husband suffers from the severest case of ulcerative colitis any of his doctors have ever seen (Dr’s from several university hospitals included) and I care for him, my daughter is showing strong signs she is following in my footsteps respecting depression and skin autoimmunities. I do not even have to go into the day to day, everybody-has-it problems of what it takes to earn the privilege of merely breathing on this earth. (All this preface later relevant). Addison’s, for those who don’t know, results when the immune system has destroyed the adrenals….. what comes from adrenals? Adrenaline. Meaning stress hormones. The tiny chemical messengers that help the body handle physical and mental stress. So now I will address your last response with this in mind….. I do not deal well with stress, and I tend to be knocked off balance easily. (Also, I forgot to tell you, I feel I am a genuine person, always have been, it’s how I was raised, and it really bothers me…. with or without adrenaline….. when someone who knows nothing about me presumes my intentions). Needless to say (so why say it, right?), I take extreme offense at your comment. I am not and have never been one to shadily or sneakily manipulate others with ulterior intentions. I love the fact that you even took the time to utilize the italic button to show just exactly how serious you are in getting across to others that I had the “specific intent” to convince others that my PAST LIFE memories were explained in the UB. Firstly, you clearly did not read my posts thoroughly. If you had, you would see that I said I DO NOT HAVE PAST LIFE MEMORIES, BUT MEMORIES FROM PRE-BIRTH IN THIS LIFE. Said another way… MEMORIES OF HAPPENINGS BEFORE I WAS BORN HERE….happenings NOT ON EARTH, so how could they be past life memories? Memories that would lead me to believe I was preparing to come here, TRAVELING to come to the “place where we could be born.” And I use quotes because this is the way I would describe it after I could talk and tell family members. The times I would ponder these memories could only have been at age 3 or less (this I know because other details related to these ponderings happened in a house we moved out of when I was 3 years old). Secondly, my memories were an afterthought, Bradly. I don’t know what mistrustful operations you must have going on inside yourself, but I can tell you my motivation was focused solely on the desire to understand the Urantia Book’s content on reincarnation….NOT my own–and NOT to “convince” others of anything whatsoever regarding my experiences– but in general. I said I would appreciate discussion on the subject, and I have very much up until this point. If it is not permissible to bring some self to a conversation here, please, I wish I had been informed. Just my nurse’s training kicking in here… you know, when you make personal connections with a patient or nurse trainee (i.e. “student”) in order to establish, maintain, or strengthen a trust relationship because both of you are committed to the teaching/learning of a specific task or theory. You do know that in the essay I posted by Dean White, that was not my own ponderings throughout, right? I am just trying to figure out why you came to the conclusion about me that you did. And why on earth you would choose to actually include it in a post. What positive outcome could that possibly have? Doesn’t matter and I won’t be around to find out. One thing I have learned is to weed out stresses. It is good to see such a tight bond with people of a study as I see here. But in the future, as one teacher to another, please don’t offend your students unless you know what you are talking about. It used to take a good deal to get to me; in fact, even though I have always been a raw nerve, 5 years ago I would have laughed at this dig. But with all I have on top of me at this point in time (and yes, I know EVERYONE has stress and sick relatives, family deaths, illnesses, and other “crosses to bear,” believe me, I pray for them daily), I feel like I am perched at the end of the plank in a stormy sea with a razor sharp axe hanging right above my head on a weakened thread. Ready to fall, the both of us. As a result, I have noticed, things go right through me to the core and twist. (Well okay, not “things,” but baseless accusations.) The other question I posed, by the way, about armageddon/antichrist, etc. That was for a friend. No interest of mine. I told him what a success this site has been with people so willing to offer knowledge and opinions, NONJUDGMENTALLY, and he asked me if I would pose that question to see the discussion on it. I will now unsubscribe, unenlist, and return to another urantia group I have found, and I will not ask any questions until I have taken the time to read all about it. See, I can learn!!! Apparently just didn’t follow the rules here. Okay, now I’m getting ridiculous. Wishing all of you a future full of happiness and love.   Good day! Darn it, right when I was feeling thankful for you guys……

    Dear Ragathea,

    Thank you for your straight-talk.  I got it. And you’ve got a huge heart Karen.

    Some UB readers may know the book inside and out. Knowledge of the book in my opinion is no measure of character.  Knowledge can mask the immorality of human intolerance.  I left this website several weeks ago because two or three people cannot stop squabbling, bickering, and sniping at each other.  Here, we have the loftiest book on the planet to assist us, and people behave like unschooled children to a sickening degree.  How unlovely and unloving!  I am writing to support you in your further study and life adventure.  I wish you and your family every blessing and every good grace you can possibly feel.  I pray that you are lifted up in your quest for truth and for good health, and that you find others of like-mind who will also support you and your family and help you find answers to the longings of your heart.  I am sure you will.

    Love, Mara

     

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