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Sorry, following some necessary travel, I had a bit of a log-in issue. Now all is good. Thank you all so much for your fascinating information and willingness to assist a new UB reader. I’m sure I’m in the right place. This book for me has sadly become one of those « do it later when I have more time » projects. 5-6 years ago, my brother found an old copy in a used bookstore, shared brief parts with me, and I fell in love. Felt like home. I wanted to read it immediately, but having a lot going on, I did not think I would have the opportunity to really dig into it’s entirety the way I want to due to time factor. So I put it off and just now am finding some spare time. Being too anxious for the information, however, I did read Malcolm Locke’s Urantia Revelation. I must note that a few years ago, my brother shared the book with my father, who has read it backward and forward at least 5 times…no exaggeration. He said it answered every question he ever had about history and the bible and is truly convinced of its authenticity. Now I will begin my own journey in the study of its information.
Bonita, the consciousness quote was not mine. This is one of Dolores Cannon’s tenets (for lack of a better word). I don’t know if I made it clear, but the work of the three doctors I cited are not my beliefs. I tried to summarize the work of each while keeping it as brief as possible. Besides reincarnation, the information collides with my instinct. I am having a difficult time in even considering the consideration of its accuracy, let alone accepting it as « belief ». Since reincarnation seems so far to be the only bump in my road, I thought I’d start there.
Again, please accept my gratitude for your responses. I appreciate the welcoming atmosphere of this site, and the time responders have taken to offer me a personalized start on learning about the UB. I also appreciate you not taking the attitude many religious folk do….. my way or the highway…. and recognizing the fact that any information we receive could be flawed. I am not offended in the least, but am happy to receive the info you offer. My name is Karen, by the way. Out of habit, I used my email as user name. Have a nice evening.
OK, Ragathea AKA Karen,
This forum has hosted hundreds of topics; thank you for this one.You may be interested in finding other readers in your area. A very good online directory of study groups is listed here http://urantiastudygroup.org/find.php.
See you around!!!!
Thanks Mark. I will check out the site. Later this week, I will have time to read through this thread a little better and I’m sure I will have more questions if that’s ok ☺
Bradly wrote: I really appreciate R’s approach so far…questions and conflict rather than declarations. Very good. One sign of the sincere student who discovers conflict/contradiction to preconception.I agree. It’s refreshing to welcome a sincere student of TUB. To be honest, I’ve become so accustomed to agendas that I’m not really sure how to act. I can say that I look forward to further discussions, that’s for sure. There are so many misunderstandings concerning the soul, and thankfully, TUB has taught us all a great deal about it. It’s my favorite part . . . that and the Spirit of Truth.
That being said, I think TUB offers the psychic/cosmic circles as a substitute for the philosophy of reincarnation. Reincarnation came about because early men and women witnessed the cycles of death and rebirth in nature and extrapolated that phenomenon to answer their metaphysical questions. The psychic circles are a newly revealed kind of cycle, actually more spiral, designed to progress the soul in a single lifetime. At the core, and I mean deep core, the two concepts seen ti satisfy similar needs of the cosmic-oriented personality . . . I think.
I am late to this thread but I just wanted to comment a bit about Brian Weiss’ book, Many Lives Many Masters. I was given that book unexpectedly by a friend a few years back. I was a skeptic about a lot of things at the time I was given that book and I thought it was funny that my friend felt that I should have that book for some reason. So I read it, and it piqued my curiosity like nothing before.
That book turned out to be the first stepping stone of my year-long ‘independent study’ program of reading a book, mining its footnotes and references for more sources, and reading more. I went from book to book, over 35 books on topics spiritual and supernatural, including theosophy, buddhism, and all kinds of things I never expected I’d be interested in. Eventually, I arrived at a book about Angels, which included in its references The Urantia Book. My search ended there and I’ve been reading and re-reading The Urantia Book exclusively ever since. Of course, everyone’s individual experiences are authentically their own; I just thought I’d share mine since I attribute my ‘education’ to the Brian Weiss book as the first step that opened my mind to new possibilities and eventually led me to TUB. In a way, it sort of prepared the soil of my mind to be receptive to the fruitful seed of The Urantia Book.
Hey Keryn. You’re not alone on that path. Even though I started to read TUB around 1970, I was totally alone as a reader and a bit scared to delve too deeply into it at first. Like you, I explored everything . . . everything and anything that even bordered on spirituality . . . even the channelling stuff piqued my interest for a while. Those Conversations with God books were favorites at one time. I even went to a Sylvia Browne event once because I was desperate to know more about the « other side ». Lots of things started out so powerful. I chased every shiny object that crossed my path, but they all lost their luster rather quickly. That didn’t stop me though. I think I’ve read almost everything in the spirituality and parapsychology sections of the bookstore. I even took classes in ACIM. Nothing stuck long. Everything seemed to shrivel on the vine with time.
TUB, on the other hand, never disappointed. The more I put into it, the more I got out of it. It has never stop satisfying my desire for more. But the best thing for me was the realization that all my inner stirrings and feelings are real. I mean they’re really real! Once I woke up to that, the world changed. I can see how the other sugar-coated stuff I was initially drawn to never fully satisfied me . . . just gave me that sugar rush, if you know what I mean.
I think a lot of people are searching for something in all those books and groups. There’s nothing wrong with searching. There’s nothing wrong with sugar now and then either. But it’s not as healthy as the real thing . . . the real spiritual food that comes from inside. TUB has helped me see that. And despite what some naysayers on this forum would have you believe, studying TUB strengthens resolve, encourages commitment and steadies the mind. It is a form of inspiration, a vision into reality, which essentially is what revelation’s about. Isn’t it? I think that’s why it’s so satisfying. I’m totally into it.
The mechanism for « reincarnation » exists in the universe. It may not necessarily be as taught in Hinduism, but UB does imply reincarnation, at least, in my estimation; the papers refer to it as « crossfertilization. » The following revelations lead me to conclude so:
« […] the higher self (divine spirit) » (103:5.5)
« In a sense the Adjusters may be fostering a certain degree of planetary crossfertilization […] But they are seldom given two indwelling experiences on the same planet; there is no Adjuster now serving on Urantia who has been on this world previously. » (109:4.6)
The revelator states that Adjusters are the higher self of the personality –thus, in essence, a part of one’s selfhood. He also informs us the reincarnation event is rare but occurs. He goes further to qualify that by stating there is no Adjuster on Urantia who has been here previously. But this statement must be taken within the context of the timeframe revelation is revealed, circa 1955. Therefore it cannot logically apply to post-1955.
One’s higher self can enjoy rebirth/reincarnation based on the above. This would explain the flashes of partial memory recall of past lives many people experience. I do not think UB contradicts reincarnation, per se.
BB
Hello BB….an interesting twist to a whole new definition of ‘reincarnation’. So you’re saying that because the TA survives every voluntary assignment of indwelling but not every mortal candidate for survival does so, then those TAs experience a form of reincarnation? And that is a source of deja vu and memory recall? So people who claim such memory of prior lives are having memories of others and not their own in a prior life? I wonder if the whole concept is not confusing (and false) enough without trying to find a ‘legitimate’ definition in the UB?
What the UB says about reincarnation (and there’s far more on the topic of pre-existence, etc. – also a falsehood according to UB):
46:7.5 (528.3) Spornagia are the only creatures in all the universe of Nebadon who experience this or any other sort of reincarnation. They are only reactive to the first five of the adjutant mind-spirits; they are not responsive to the spirits of worship and wisdom. But the five-adjutant mind equivalates to a totality or sixth reality level, and it is this factor which persists as an experiential identity.
94:2.3 (1029.1) The undue concentration on self led certainly to a fear of the nonevolutionary perpetuation of self in an endless round of successive incarnations as man, beast, or weeds. And of all the contaminating beliefs which could have become fastened upon what may have been an emerging monotheism, none was so stultifying as this belief in transmigration — the doctrine of the reincarnation of souls — which came from the Dravidian Deccan. This belief in the weary and monotonous round of repeated transmigrations robbed struggling mortals of their long-cherished hope of finding that deliverance and spiritual advancement in death which had been a part of the earlier Vedic faith.
94:2.4 (1029.2) This philosophically debilitating teaching was soon followed by the invention of the doctrine of the eternal escape from self by submergence in the universal rest and peace of absolute union with Brahman, the oversoul of all creation. Mortal desire and human ambition were effectually ravished and virtually destroyed. For more than two thousand years the better minds of India have sought to escape from all desire, and thus was opened wide the door for the entrance of those later cults and teachings which have virtually shackled the souls of many Hindu peoples in the chains of spiritual hopelessness. Of all civilizations, the Vedic-Aryan paid the most terrible price for its rejection of the Salem gospel.
86:4.6 (953.5) The orange race was especially given to belief in transmigration and reincarnation. This idea of reincarnation originated in the observance of hereditary and trait resemblance of offspring to ancestors. The custom of naming children after grandparents and other ancestors was due to belief in reincarnation. Some later-day races believed that man died from three to seven times. This belief (residual from the teachings of Adam about the mansion worlds), and many other remnants of revealed religion, can be found among the otherwise absurd doctrines of twentieth-century barbarians.
If the belief and promotion of reincarnation is considered one of the most absurd doctrines of twentieth century barbarians, perhaps it is counter productive to promote it among UB students? Just sayin’………… = )
Thought Adjusters don’t incarnate, so how can they reincarnate? Thought Adjusters indwell. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the words.
Ragathea said she remembers things from before she was born, and that she’s spoken of them her entire life, since she learned to talk. Wouldn’t that memory of hers be before her Adjuster came? That is, unless she didn’t start talking until she was almost 6 years old. How then would her past life memories be caused by Adjuster cross-fertilization?
It has been mentioned earlier in this topic that what might be considered as reincarnation is the cross-fertilization of Thought Adjusters who have experience from other beings on various other planets from elsewhere in the universe. This could actually be a logical association with reincarnation but only in the aspect of the incarnation of the TA, where I’m sure that there are other planets which are similar to Urantia, and that the minds of those beings would work similar to ours.
What intrigues me is the what was presented in the previous narration as is presented below:
(1198.8) 109:4.5 I have observed a Thought Adjuster indwelling a mind on Urantia who has, according to the records on Uversa, indwelt fifteen minds previously in Orvonton. We do not know whether this Monitor has had similar experiences in other superuniverses, but I suspect so. This is a marvelous Adjuster and one of the most useful and potent forces on Urantia during this present age. What others have lost, in that they refused to survive, this human being (and your whole world) now gains. From him who has not survival qualities, shall be taken away even that experienced Adjuster which he now has, while to him who has survival prospects, shall be given even the pre-experienced Adjuster of a slothful deserter.
The intrigue is that if all of this experience is available to a current being’s adjuster, in that this experience comes from those who « refused to survive » and might be considered as « slothful deserter »(s), then it might indicate that the experiences seem to be transferred in that this TA has done so 15 times? Am I the only one who sees a possible issue with this Adjuster, and that this number of 15 seems destined to go up? It is not the desire of the Adjuster to foster survival, and does not the Adjuster choose the subject? Whats wrong with this picture? But using this information in association with « cross-fertilization » could explain many things, where the devil didn’t make me do it but maybe the TA did?
The other aspect of reincarnation might be applied to the second coming of Jesus, in that depending on how He were to bestow Himself, and most likely not in the same body or type of body, but would He have an adjuster, and if so, who’s would it be, or would He retain that same Personalized Adjuster? I mention this because, would He not need to retain those memories from before?
There are no « aspects » to reincarnation to consider….as there is no reincarnation. Like the Supreme, the TA’s are not corruptible and cannot be tainted by the temporal unrealities of evil or sin.
107:4.2 (1180.5) The actual source of the Adjuster must be infinite, and before fusion with the immortal soul of an evolving mortal, the reality of the Adjuster must border on absoluteness. Adjusters are not absolutes in the universal sense, in the Deity sense, but they are probably true absolutes within the potentialities of their fragmented nature. They are qualified as to universality but not as to nature; in extensiveness they are limited, but in intensiveness of meaning, value, and fact they are absolute. For this reason we sometimes denominate the divine gifts as the qualified absolute fragments of the Father.
107:4.3 (1180.6) No Adjuster has ever been disloyal to the Paradise Father; the lower orders of personal creatures may sometimes have to contend with disloyal fellows, but never the Adjusters; they are supreme and infallible in their supernal sphere of creature ministry and universe function.
108:5.1 (1191.2) The Adjusters accept a difficult assignment when they volunteer to indwell such composite beings as live on Urantia. But they have assumed the task of existing in your minds, there to receive the admonitions of the spiritual intelligences of the realms and then to undertake to redictate or translate these spiritual messages to the material mind; they are indispensable to the Paradise ascension.
108:5.2 (1191.3) What the Thought Adjuster cannot utilize in your present life, those truths which he cannot successfully transmit to the man of his betrothal, he will faithfully preserve for use in the next stage of existence, just as he now carries over from circle to circle those items which he fails to register in the experience of the human subject, owing to the creature’s inability, or failure, to give a sufficient degree of co-operation.
108:5.3 (1191.4) One thing you can depend upon: The Adjusters will never lose anything committed to their care; never have we known these spirit helpers to default. Angels and other high types of spirit beings, not excepting the local universe type of Sons, may occasionally embrace evil, may sometimes depart from the divine way, but Adjusters never falter. They are absolutely dependable, and this is equally true of all seven groups.
Me here: Michael does not have a TA and has no need for TA. He’s had his last of 7 bestowals and is now Master Son of Nebadon. When he returns to Urantia it will be as Christ Michael….and not in any material form. Oh, and like the Supreme and the TA’s, Michael is also incorruptible by evil and sin.
You keep looking for the dark side in all matters Midi…just as you did under the self chosen name of Caligastia. Such suspicion and doubt and anxieties are very distinctive for a student of this joyful and assuring Epochal Revelation. Let me suggest a reading of Papers 107 & 108 to learn more about the Father Fragments and their ministries. None have failed in their mission/ministry even though many do also serve those who do not survive.
176:4.4 (1919.1) Many of us are inclined to believe that Jesus will return to Urantia many times during the ages to come. We do not have his specific promise to make these plural visits, but it seems most probable that he who carries among his universe titles that of Planetary Prince of Urantia will many times visit the world whose conquest conferred such a unique title upon him.
176:4.5 (1919.2) We most positively believe that Michael will again come in person to Urantia, but we have not the slightest idea as to when or in what manner he may choose to come. Will his second advent on earth be timed to occur in connection with the terminal judgment of this present age, either with or without the associated appearance of a Magisterial Son? Will he come in connection with the termination of some subsequent Urantian age? Will he come unannounced and as an isolated event? We do not know. Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.
176:4.6 (1919.3) You would do well, therefore, to disassociate the Master’s personal return to earth from any and all set events or settled epochs. We are sure of only one thing: He has promised to come back. We have no idea as to when he will fulfill this promise or in what connection. As far as we know, he may appear on earth any day, and he may not come until age after age has passed and been duly adjudicated by his associated Sons of the Paradise corps.
176:4.7 (1919.4) The second advent of Michael on earth is an event of tremendous sentimental value to both midwayers and humans; but otherwise it is of no immediate moment to midwayers and of no more practical importance to human beings than the common event of natural death, which so suddenly precipitates mortal man into the immediate grasp of that succession of universe events which leads directly to the presence of this same Jesus, the sovereign ruler of our universe. The children of light are all destined to see him, and it is of no serious concern whether we go to him or whether he should chance first to come to us. Be you therefore ever ready to welcome him on earth as he stands ready to welcome you in heaven. We confidently look for his glorious appearing, even for repeated comings, but we are wholly ignorant as to how, when, or in what connection he is destined to appear.
This could actually be a logical association with reincarnation but only in the aspect of the incarnation of the TA,
Again, Thought Adjusters DO NOT incarnate. They indwell. There is a difference. Personalities incarnate. The Adjuster is not a personality.
But using this information in association with “cross-fertilization” could explain many things, where the devil didn’t make me do it but maybe the TA did?
, you shock me! Haven’t you read that the Adjuster only carries experiences of truth, beauty and goodness with him? Where is the evil in that?
And more so!!! Haven’t you read that the Adjuster does not make anyone do anything? PAHLEESE!
The other aspect of reincarnation might be applied to the second coming of Jesus, in that depending on how He were to bestow Himself, and most likely not in the same body or type of body, but would He have an adjuster, and if so, who’s would it be, or would He retain that same Personalized Adjuster? I mention this because, would He not need to retain those memories from before?
This is shocking too!!! Maybe it’s time to give the book another read?
First of all: When Jesus returns, he will return in spirit form. Which is why they say this, something that they are certain of:
176:4.5 Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.
Second of all: Our Master Son, Sovereign of the Universe of Nebadon, does not need an Adjuster to jog his memory. He knows everything. And since he will come again as our Sovereign, he won’t forget anything.
Again, Thought Adjusters DO NOT incarnate. They indwell.
Okay then, if they « indwell », by definition: « to possess (a person), as a moral principle or motivating force », their alternate motive is to guide, or pilot, a person to do or become what?
In opposition « incarnate », which could be a synonym to indwell, where a body is required: « embodied in flesh; given a bodily, especially a human, form ».
So, either way, once indwelt, the TA becomes the seed for the human soul, and as a physical body, now with a soul, can be incarnated.
And more so!!! Haven’t you read that the Adjuster does not make anyone do anything? PAHLEESE!
That’s correct, the TA doesn’t « make anyone do anything », only guides them or pilots them to do something. In a way, provides choices for an individual to choose. Is that not why they are called « adjusters »?
Haven’t you read that the Adjuster only carries experiences of truth, beauty and goodness with him?
Then, how do you explain, the narrative provided, which spawned the aforementioned information in (109:4.5 )?
, I just spent 20 minutes writing a reply only to have it disappear when I hit the submit button. I’m so teed off I can’t tell you how much!!!!! If the management of this forum doesn’t do something about this problem, I’m going to have to rethink my membership.
I have things to do. If I get off my high dudgeon, I’ll explain things later.
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