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Thank you and I agree with that. I’m sorry I was rude 9 months ago too. I still very much affirm the endless ‘ascension’ described in TUB.
I was pushing TUB pretty hard in the /r/religion group on reddit (and I was using the BigBlueBook.org version) for a while until they booted me, and I think I found a few converts. So many folks needed to get past the guilt and fear and “one-and-done” cosmology of the Abrahamic faiths.
Yes, TUB is up-front that folks should not believe in ‘endless’ reincarnation and I agree. Nor is there much inspiration in the idea that we’ll dissolve back into Nirvana or whatever. Its possible that we do become more of an ‘oversoul’ (like an ocean with rivers) or a collective at some point but TUB is conservative about so-called ‘eastern’ thought.
I read another one of Gary Renard’s books, and he seems to support my view of “limited” reincarnation—-that we choose to come back, and it can be a lifetime in the 18th century for example (not ‘sequential’)
….but once we’ve learned enough lessons at the Earth School (could be other planets too) then we move on to less-and-less material realms, as the TUB says.
But we’re choosing to do that and it’s like part of the ‘remedial’ studies in the mansion worlds. I also say that folks can live-out their fantasies for a while in the “holo-deck” located in the Las Vegas of the between-life, and if its just addictive/animal/material/hedonism, then folks farther along look down on it as a kind of personal, self-imposed “hell”
I say ‘time’ is different on the ‘other side’ and maintain that you really could be ‘erased’ from past-present-and-future if you truly kept embracing the relative un-reality of evil (to “become as though you’d never been”as TUB says) and it would just seem to “happen to” you with inevitability of the seasons or a leaf falling or our own breath.
sincerely, -paul in portland
Welcome back Paul…and no worries!
Yes, the “one and done” crowd are a bleak bunch! What is the value of morality or idealism or love or service or duty or loyalty for such persons?
The reality and the potential between soulless animals and mortals is a vast gulf indeed. We are far more than some mere bio evolutionary step of accidentalism; but are rather a great leap of achievement by the Life Carriers and Adjutants.
The forever adventure is part of the natural order of Divine creationism and the paternal nature of Deity.
14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony—these traits inherent in evolving human nature—were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.
14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity—the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration—is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.
Hi urantia4me!
No where in the UB does it suggest that humanity MUST listen to dis-embodied voices, and many people figure that out for themselves when spirit gravity sucks them in – LOL
I prefer to stay in my lane, so to speak. The Atonement Doctrine has got to go – long over due.
USA has only produced “greed is good” and “what is torture?” as the official with-us-or-against-us Patriot Act unelected government “philosophy for living”.
People in India have a longer tradition of asking the question Who/why are we? And no civilization would actually be a civilization if it ignored the FACT that this planet is a Nursery of Life Forms, if you will.
I always like to get back to a major character in the drama of the First Human Species – Amadon – whenever it’s “time to roll up the pant legs, because it is too late to save the shoes” of a pile of pharisaism bs PROJECTED as “politics”.
Life is in OUR HUMAN HANDS to cherish and nurture. We can do it MUCH BETTER than the luciferians….game on. It just gets so vicious because “technically it is not illegal”…
Wow! I go away for a few days and what interesting comments I find when I come back! So in order of the replies…Bradly, you never disappoint when it comes to such pointed & thoughtful comments. You always remind me that I have so much more to learn (and occasionally re-read) in the UB. Hello again to Paul – funny how we keep coming back to the UB when comparing it to other sources of info. There are levels of depth & clarity in the UB that other metaphysical sources cannot quite match. And I find it quite interesting that New Age gurus do NOT provide good answers when asked why the UB contradicts New Age teachings. They sound good only up to a point. And then comes the response that I ask too many questions! But if their material was absolutely true, then it should withstand honest, rigorous questioning. But like you all have said, reincarnation is a somewhat more reasonable idea than “one life, then final judgement”. Now to NamelessUntilFused, I have looked politics from various perspectives, and in the past, likely shared similar thoughts. But honestly, not only true for this forum, but for life in general, I find it best not to bring up politics (and religion) except in private conversations with people you know and trust. I used to welcome debates with people on both subjects, but ultimately, the debates were at best a stalemate. At worst, people become more entrenched in their positions, resenting those with opposing views. So I found that nothing ultimately good came from the many debates I engaged in. Besides, now I find that I have mix of thoughtful opinions on various subjects so that I can find some things agreeable to discuss with people on different sides of the political (& religious) spectrums, and there’s a better chance good coming from such interactions. So, consider that if we can bring together people (with diverse views on many other subjects) to actually agree on reading, studying and discussing the Urantia Book, then we have accomplished something well-worth our time & effort! So going back a few of the UB quotes that Bradly sited, it’s good to know that those beings who produced the UB know very well how frustrating life can be at times, causing us a whole ranging of emotional outbursts and negative thoughts. And those beings took the time to remind us that life in the grand scheme is moving in the overall desired direction, so we should allow ourselves to lose our minds or self-control. Things do get sorted out eventually for us, though it may not happen during our short lives on Earth. In the meantime, I try keep reminding myself that everyone has a mix of traits & ideas that I would label good or bad, depending on my current ways of thinking. Some people I would NEVER want to hang out with, but that doesn’t mean they are pure evil scumbags. Even within our individual collection of thoughts, I can almost guarantee that we each periodically have some contradictory thoughts, which we may or may not be aware of. Also, I bet everyone can think something they believed 10 years ago but now have a very different belief. It’s like when we are teenagers, we may have thought our parents were really stupid in some. Then as you grow older by 30 years or more (& hopefully wiser), when you have kids of your own, you realize your knew more than you previously thought. And moreover, they actually accomplished more with less compared to our respective generations. Kids today are very technologically advanced compared to when I was a kid, but youth will always lack some common sense that can only come from having a variety of life experiences, which I have had. I had to explain that to a younger friend of mine recently who mistakenly thought I was implying that he is not a smart as me. I told him it was only the fact that I have had more years than him to seriously ponder and test ideas, including my own. Nothing more than that. So now our friendship is repaired, even though he differs politically from me. But now he realizes that I honestly weigh the pros & cons for all ideas and then draw conclusions. 10 years from now, he may take a big interest in my current beliefs about things, but by then, I may have moved on to other interests, adjusting my beliefs yet again. I guess what I’m suggesting is to try to be a little more understanding with people we currently disagree with, for someday we may find that we will actually agree on a few things after some life experiences reshape our thinking. Bye for now.
Correction to my prior post: “we should NOT allow ourselves to lose our minds or lose our self-control.”
Another correction: “You eventually realize that your parents knew more than you previously thought.” (I really should proofread before submitting my posts.)
Urantia4me,
Studying the UB is certainly a challenge, for sure! What has emerged helpful for me is a simple question: What is this author really telling me? It has led to increased interest in listening with an open mind, such as I suspect you are doing with your reading. Perhaps the top number one most important question for all life (nothing exempted) is only three words: What is true? (Or what is real?)
We learn from the UB the Universal Paradise Father God is the Truth. This person provides and we are privileged to discover! We gain a little bit daily, more later on the Mansion Worlds and then still more later in our universe career then onward for more truth!
Wonderful, this plan from the Trinity Team!
Michael/urantia4me – when you are logged in there should be an “Edit” button at the top left of your own posts which is there for 1- 2 days to allow such corrections within the original post. I can read my own mistakes sometimes and still not see them somehow!
I agree about personal contemporary political opinions and commentary – they are simply out of place here and irrelevant to the subject matter and purpose of the community here. We discover and discuss a profound textbook on the origins, meanings, and destiny of life.
To engage in rhetorical and persuasive arguments for or against local politics or politicians or conservative vs. liberal blame and guilt or “solutions” and to assign blame to secular institutions for personal political frustrations, disappointments, and anxieties only diminishes the discovery and discussion and our purpose here and completely misses the point and the contents of the Papers.
We have a specific purpose here which unifies perspective and gives a compass point for our mutual focus, as Mark points out so well above. What is true and real in the universe and in our life…according to the contents of the Papers? None here are required to believe or agree with those teachings and we may certainly compare and contrast our own and others’ beliefs TO the claims of the Papers authors.
But our claims and representations about the Papers are certainly subject to scrutiny, discussion, and debate. And personal politics are never appropriate or even relevant and the political agreement or disagreement by others is just as irrelevant and inappropriate too.
But….the causes and solutions for blame, personal disappointments, frustration, anxieties, fears, doubts, suspicions, and pessimism certainly ARE topics presented in the UB. These are the very point and purpose of the UB…to identify and specify the causes and the solutions for all such blindness, impatience, ignorance, subjectivity, myopic perspective, false beliefs, superstitions, and mortal immaturity.
Doubts and fears are contrasted with faith, hope, and trust in the UB. Ignorance is salved by information and insight. Truth is served to those who can discern it and patiently awaits those who cannot yet utilize it until they can do so by greater context and perspective delivered by experiential wisdom attainment.
There are levels of depth & clarity in the UB that other metaphysical sources cannot quite match. And I find it quite interesting that New Age gurus do NOT provide good answers when asked why the UB contradicts New Age teachings. They sound good only up to a point. And then comes the response that I ask too many questions! But if their material was absolutely true, then it should withstand honest, rigorous questioning. But like you all have said, reincarnation is a somewhat more reasonable idea than “one life, then final judgement”. Now to NamelessUntilFused, I have looked politics from various perspectives, and in the past, likely shared similar thoughts. But honestly, not only true for this forum, but for life in general, I find it best not to bring up politics (and religion) except in private conversations with people you know and trust. I used to welcome debates with people on both subjects, but ultimately, the debates were at best a stalemate. At worst, people become more entrenched in their positions, resenting those with opposing views. So I found that nothing ultimately good came from the many debates I engaged in. Besides, now I find that I have mix of thoughtful opinions on various subjects so that I can find some things agreeable to discuss with people on different sides of the political (& religious) spectrums, and there’s a better chance good coming from such interactions. So, consider that if we can bring together people (with diverse views on many other subjects) to actually agree on reading, studying and discussing the Urantia Book, then we have accomplished something well-worth our time & effort! So going back a few of the UB quotes that Bradly sited, it’s good to know that those beings who produced the UB know very well how frustrating life can be at times, causing us a whole ranging of emotional outbursts and negative thoughts. And those beings took the time to remind us that life in the grand scheme is moving in the overall desired direction, so we should allow ourselves to lose our minds or self-control. Things do get sorted out eventually for us, though it may not happen during our short lives on Earth. In the meantime, I try keep reminding myself that everyone has a mix of traits & ideas that I would label good or bad, depending on my current ways of thinking. Some people I would NEVER want to hang out with, but that doesn’t mean they are pure evil scumbags. Even within our individual collection of thoughts, I can almost guarantee that we each periodically have some contradictory thoughts, which we may or may not be aware of. Also, I bet everyone can think something they believed 10 years ago but now have a very different belief. It’s like when we are teenagers, we may have thought our parents were really stupid in some. Then as you grow older by 30 years or more (& hopefully wiser), when you have kids of your own, you realize your knew more than you previously thought. And moreover, they actually accomplished more with less compared to our respective generations. Kids today are very technologically advanced compared to when I was a kid, but youth will always lack some common sense that can only come from having a variety of life experiences, which I have had. I had to explain that to a younger friend of mine recently who mistakenly thought I was implying that he is not a smart as me. I told him it was only the fact that I have had more years than him to seriously ponder and test ideas, including my own. Nothing more than that. So now our friendship is repaired, even though he differs politically from me. But now he realizes that I honestly weigh the pros & cons for all ideas and then draw conclusions. 10 years from now, he may take a big interest in my current beliefs about things, but by then, I may have moved on to other interests, adjusting my beliefs yet again. I guess what I’m suggesting is to try to be a little more understanding with people we currently disagree with, for someday we may find that we will actually agree on a few things after some life experiences reshape our thinking.
Nicely put. Thank you.
Thank you Mara. And yes, Mark – that is one of the most important questions to ask, for a variety of reasons. I had more to write but I lost it when I got interrupted by a phone call. Bradly, thanks for reminding me of the edit function, & thanks for reminding all of us how the UB addresses many of humanity’s concerns – real, specific knowledge (in the UB) is comforting, perhaps even more than someone simply saying “Everything will be alright”. It’s late so I better go for now.
Greetings Michael!!!
Yes indeed…the universe reality facts presented in the UB are so completely assuring and comforting to its students and believers. Epochal Revelations are the primary source of such knowledge on all material, evolutionary worlds….and such information reduces confusion and eliminates superstition more effectively even than mortal science, which also does eventually correct the primitive perspectives related to causes and effects.
Epochal Revelation is intended to be a successive aggregation of expanding knowledge presented to the mortals of each world over time based evolutionary and experiential progress. Similarly, individuals are exposed to increasing education over the entirety of the ascendent experience.
So glad to have you here sharing in the group discovery and study of the Papers. Your sincerity inspires and your insights are appreciated by others here…including me!
0:12.11 (16.8) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.
0:12.12 (17.1) Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.
101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:
101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.
5. Religion Expanded by Revelation
101:5.1 (1110.4) Revelation is a technique whereby ages upon ages of time are saved in the necessary work of sorting and sifting the errors of evolution from the truths of spirit acquirement.
101:5.2 (1110.5) Science deals with facts; religion is concerned only with values. Through enlightened philosophy the mind endeavors to unite the meanings of both facts and values, thereby arriving at a concept of complete reality. Remember that science is the domain of knowledge, philosophy the realm of wisdom, and religion the sphere of the faith experience.
Me here: We are told that the facts of cosmology and the historical record are never “inspired”. They are true but they are not “truth” per se. They are facts of knowledge, not relative truths with personalized meanings and values. But such factual knowledge of reality is profoundly important in its effect on context, perspective, and the philosophy of living!!
Hello Bradly,
It was fitting that you quoted from the Forward section of the UB – just days before your reply, I reread the Forward to see if I could more fully grasp it since the first time I read it when I first bought the book; now I understand it. So now I have been reading the Papers dealing with the life of Jesus – I love all the details, since the Bible provides very little in comparison to the UB. Around ages 28-29, Jesus gave very interesting details on time, space & reality. In that same section, he also answered the often-asked question, “If God is good, why does He allow evil?” Jesus also explained how/why animals do not have souls, from which his student from India logically concluded that the transmigration of human souls into animals is untrue. Bye for now.
Thank you all who have tried to clarify (or at times correct) my understanding (& the understanding of others who had good questions/comments) of the UB; it has been helpful. The more I read the UB, the more it clarifies (or at times corrects) not only what I have read in the Bible (which you all likely know how well the UB does that), but also the UB does the same for several of the metaphysical/new age books that I have read! I just finished reading Paper 113 (which Mara recommended to someone else) & Paper 114 (which covers related topics). I also have a better understanding of the relationship between the 7 Psychic Circles (which Bonita recommended to me) & the 7 Mansion Worlds, for the UB states that the human struggles to advance in the psychic circles on Earth are continued on the Mansion Worlds for those who reached a certain level of achievement at the time of their respective deaths. Be aware that the UB seems to suggest that the majority of humans who die before reaching the 3rd psychic circle while alive on their planets of origin will likely be spending a good deal of time in the “transition worlds” before being resurrected on the Mansion Worlds, which makes sense to me. But I would like others on this forum to comment on something odd I read in Paper 114. The UB says there are currently 900+ living mortals on Urantia who are “unconsciously” being prepared for global emergencies (by various entities) as the Reserve Corp of Destiny. I know what I think of that – it truly clarifies for me something oddly related that I read in a book by Dolores Cannon. (Just curious to know how you all think that “unconscious preparation” is occurring from our human point of view.) It is comforting to know from the UB (& other books I have read) that we humans will NOT be able to drastically change the beneficial course of evolution on our planet, despite all the current risks facing humanity & the Earth. Blessings.
Hello again. I would also like to know anyone’s thoughts on what are the Transition Worlds and what happens on them? Is it safe to assume that it the Transition Worlds are for those human souls who never reached the 3rd psychic circle while alive on their planets of origin? The UB makes clear that some personalities won’t survive to experience resurrection on the Mansion Worlds. Are the ones who survive the Transition Worlds the same who must wait until the end of the current age to resurrect on the Mansion Worlds, which can take up to 1000+ years? I’m going to speculate that the Transition Worlds are the UB’s clarification/correction to the imperfect doctrine of Purgatory. (One more interesting thing since Halloween recently passed – read Paper 134, Section 8, to see what Jesus encountered on Mt Hermon – beings that some would classify as parnormal, but the UB confirms their reality, though my personal belief is that it’s highly unlikely that we would ever perceive such beings!)
No…not related to any level of ascenders or purgatory Michael. These are the engineering and mechanical worlds which design morontial levels which facilitate the progressive physical/spiritual transformation for all transcenders.
Paper 48 describes these worlds in some detail.
48:2.1 (542.5) These unique beings are exclusively concerned with the supervision of those activities which represent a working combination of spiritual and physical or semimaterial energies. They are exclusively devoted to the ministry of morontia progression. Not that they so much minister to mortals during the transition experience, but they rather make possible the transition environment for the progressing morontia creatures. They are the channels of morontia power which sustain and energize the morontia phases of the transition worlds.
48:6.2 (551.7) You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.
48:6.1 (551.6) While all orders of angels, from the planetary helpers to the supreme seraphim, minister on the morontia worlds, the transition ministers are more exclusively assigned to these activities. These angels are of the sixth order of seraphic servers, and their ministry is devoted to facilitating the transit of material and mortal creatures from the temporal life in the flesh on into the early stages of morontia existence on the seven mansion worlds.
48:8.1 (557.16) From the time of graduation from the mansion worlds to the attainment of spirit status in the superuniverse career, ascending mortals are denominated morontia progressors. Your passage through this wonderful borderland life will be an unforgettable experience, a charming memory. It is the evolutionary portal to spirit life and the eventual attainment of creature perfection by which ascenders achieve the goal of time—the finding of God on Paradise.
Me here: Let me repeat…thanks for being here. Your sincerity, dedication, and open mind are wonderful aids in our mutual discovery of the Papers.
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