Reincarnation

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  • #42272
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Greetings Bart!!

    If interested we can start a topic focused on Papers 110-112.  Your questions deserve their own space and consideration I think.

    :good:

    #42273
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    My main question is this:   at about age 5 a mortal is assigned a thought adjuster provided he is a “fully functional mortal”   What constitutes a “fully functional mortal”.    If any mortal does not meet this requirement and not assigned a thought adjuster what is its fate?  Upon death is that mortal just considered a failed experiment in nature and  dissolved without any further evolution of any kind?  There seem to be a lot of pages devoted to cosmic organization and function which I doubt a whole lot of UB readers truly understand but not much about simpler questions which I am sure I am not alone in asking and are closer to the kinds of things people who read the UB would like to understand.

    Hello Bart and thank you for your questions.

    At age five or six not one of us is a fully functioning mortal.  We are just kiddos.  When are we fully functioning mortals? My guess is when we we are old enough to get a job and live on our own.  This reference tells us what is required to receive a thought adjuster:

    108:2.1   Though the Adjusters volunteer for service as soon as the personality forecasts have been relayed to Divinington, they are not actually assigned until the human subjects make their first moral personality decision. The first moral choice of the human child is automatically indicated in the seventh mind-adjutant and registers instantly, by way of the local universe Creative Spirit, over the universal mind-gravity circuit of the Conjoint Actor in the presence of the Master Spirit of superuniverse jurisdiction, who forthwith dispatches this intelligence to Divinington. Adjusters reach their human subjects on Urantia, on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday. In the present generation it is running five years, ten months, and four days; that is, on the 2,134th day of terrestrial life.
    When the little one makes its first moral choice, a TA arrives.
    108:2.2   The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster. Creature mind must exhibit the worship outreach and indicate wisdom function by exhibiting the ability to choose between the emerging values of good and evil — moral choice.
    Though I am a long time reader, I have many questions too.  The UB simply does not tell us everything we would like to know.  For example what happens to a person who didn’t get an adjuster?  I do not know, and they do not tell us, to the best of my recollection.  We are informed about little ones under the age of moral choice who hapened to have passed away.  See Paper 47 to learn about the  infant-receiving schools of Satania where “. . .children of pre-Adjuster ages are cared for in families of five, ranging in ages from one year and under up to approximately five years, or that age when the Adjuster arrives.”  47:2.3  You might find Paper 113 of interest where you will read about the ministry of the guardian angels who minister to the subnormal minded individuals, and “. . . witness that justice and mercy are extended to them in the life struggles of the sphere.”
    #42277
    Avatar
    fordstar7
    Participant

    Mara:      Thank you for your response and knowledge.  I will continue to reread and study the references you gave.   It is clear there are some very brilliant minds who read the UB and those of us who are new appreciate their guidance a great deal.  Thank you.

    Bart

    #42278
    Avatar
    fordstar7
    Participant

    Hi Bradly:  You have given much help in the past to those of us who need it from more well versed readers and your name is well known on the forum and I have read many or your posts.  Thank you for your time and effort.

    I would like to reread and study again papers 110-112 as you suggested and maybe it will result in a fuller understanding of the questions that persist in the transition from a former believer in reincarnation to a better grasp of the UB.

    After more study on my part I will reconnect with you about starting a topic on my questions.

    Thank you again and stay well

    Bart

    #42279
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Hi Bradly: You have given much help in the past to those of us who need it from more well versed readers and your name is well known on the forum and I have read many or your posts. Thank you for your time and effort.

    I would like to reread and study again papers 110-112 as you suggested and maybe it will result in a fuller understanding of the questions that persist in the transition from a former believer in reincarnation to a better grasp of the UB.

    After more study on my part I will reconnect with you about starting a topic on my questions.

    Thank you again and stay well

    Bart

    Thank you Bart.  Very kind of you.  I look forward to the discussion and study.  I think I’ll go ahead and start it up!

    In the meantime, as related to reincarnation:  After rejecting the evolutionary and fundamentalist church of my youth, I was drawn to the study of Taoism and Zen – still do today (I also studied some Western philosophers and also…still do!) and gave much consideration to reincarnation.  I ultimately rejected it before finding the Urantia Papers…but I did discover great truth within it which certainly rang true and felt right to me as well.

    As a teenager I early came to believe that the Christian teaching that salvation, which leads to the resurrection of soul immediately results, somehow, in the perfection of the soul merely by surviving material death to be ridiculous!!  And the reality portrayed of a universal and uniform stasis to be undesirable!!  Christianity was so disappointing, especially when I embraced the teaching of karma and enlightening.  Karma is a universal teaching that is certainly distinct from reincarnation.  Reincarnationists coopted and incorporated karma.  Reincarnation does require karma.  Karma does NOT require reincarnation.  Jesus taught karmic principals or repercussion of all motive and choices – reaping what is sown and the fruits of the Spirit are universal karmic principals.

    Reincarnation teaches experiential progression and the perfecting and becoming related to enlightening and wisdom!!  YES PLEASE!!

    This is very true according to the UB.  This is universe reality.  The evolutionary process of perfecting by gaining experiential wisdom!!!

    Reincarnation is wrong in little ways but so right in such big ways!!!

    The reason I rejected reincarnation was due to a couple of factors:  first – it seemed to me to shrink and diminish the universe and God into a very earth-centric and rather primitive perspective – always returning over and over to this same little rock?  I find almost all human religions and philosophies do the same.  The second reason was retrogression and animal incarnations which I also found to be primitive….even silly.  The third point for my ultimate rejection is loss of personal awareness and the continuity of experiential wisdom and enlightening.  How can we progress forward by going backwards and without conscious memory of all prior decisions and results?????  The fourth point of my disillusionment with reincarnation is the fact and truth that karma is NOT about material outcomes or punishments or rewards in the current life or any future life either….karma is a teacher of wisdom and evolutionary enlightening that requires consciousness and conscience both which reincarnation certainly is lacking!

    Ultimately I found reincarnation irreconcilable with the very process of perfecting it claimed to represent.  Illogical.  Unreasonable.  Irrational.  It was based on karmic principals which it ignored, denied, and betrayed.  That was my personal journey with reincarnation.  As I’ve said already here on this thread…reincarnation is not sinful but merely inaccurate and incomplete and unfulfilling – especially related to the Papers we study here!!  Why people believe in reincarnation is not so difficult to understand.  Why they become prejudice and cling to that falsehood when blessed by the perspective of reality presented in the UB is a mystery to me however!

    The UB certainly answered all those questions about karma and evolution and experiential wisdom for me and in so many cases confirmed truths already discovered, embraced, and known and also tweaked many points of context in powerful ways to unify my own experience and perspective in such logical and reasonable and rational ways!  The whole text makes so much sense and expands and unifies and harmonizes reality in such glorious ways.  Well….I became a big fan….obviously!

    As to your specific question….I would say that God chooses all choices out of very personal and Divine Affection for each and for all beings in creation.  Fairness and mercy are primary and foundational factors in the experience of all beings throughout eternity and especially those of us born in time.  Not everything can be understood by mortal mind…or even by celestials.  Not everything is explained to us in the UB as Mara points out.  But what is specified and clear is God’s love for all beings and for the totality of creation and the function of fairness in all universe affairs.

    So all discussions about survival and progress and destiny and potential begins and ends with God’s love and God’s mercy.

    1:4.4 (26.6) We are constantly confronted with this mystery of God; we are nonplused by the increasing unfolding of the endless panorama of the truth of his infinite goodness, endless mercy, matchless wisdom, and superb character.

    2:4.1 (38.1) Mercy is simply justice tempered by that wisdom which grows out of perfection of knowledge and the full recognition of the natural weaknesses and environmental handicaps of finite creatures. “Our God is full of compassion, gracious, long-suffering, and plenteous in mercy.” Therefore “whosoever calls upon the Lord shall be saved,” “for he will abundantly pardon.” “The mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting”; yes, “his mercy endures forever.” “I am the Lord who executes loving-kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth, for in these things I delight.” “I do not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men,” for I am “the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort.”

    2:4.2 (38.2) God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature’s need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father’s tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him.

    2:4.3 (38.3) Only the discernment of infinite wisdom enables a righteous God to minister justice and mercy at the same time and in any given universe situation. The heavenly Father is never torn by conflicting attitudes towards his universe children; God is never a victim of attitudinal antagonisms. God’s all-knowingness unfailingly directs his free will in the choosing of that universe conduct which perfectly, simultaneously, and equally satisfies the demands of all his divine attributes and the infinite qualities of his eternal nature.

    2:4.4 (38.4) Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness.

    2:4.5 (38.5) Divine mercy represents a fairness technique of adjustment between the universe levels of perfection and imperfection. Mercy is the justice of Supremacy adapted to the situations of the evolving finite, the righteousness of eternity modified to meet the highest interests and universe welfare of the children of time. Mercy is not a contravention of justice but rather an understanding interpretation of the demands of supreme justice as it is fairly applied to the subordinate spiritual beings and to the material creatures of the evolving universes. Mercy is the justice of the Paradise Trinity wisely and lovingly visited upon the manifold intelligences of the creations of time and space as it is formulated by divine wisdom and determined by the all-knowing mind and the sovereign free will of the Universal Father and all his associated Creators.

    5. The Love of God

    2:5.1 (38.6) “God is love”; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. “He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

    2:5.2 (39.1) It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, “for the Father himself loves you.” It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.”

    2:5.3 (39.2) The Creators are the very first to attempt to save man from the disastrous results of his foolish transgression of the divine laws. God’s love is by nature a fatherly affection; therefore does he sometimes “chasten us for our own profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.” Even during your fiery trials remember that “in all our afflictions he is afflicted with us.”

    2:5.4 (39.3) God is divinely kind to sinners. When rebels return to righteousness, they are mercifully received, “for our God will abundantly pardon.” “I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.”

    2:5.5 (39.4) After all, the greatest evidence of the goodness of God and the supreme reason for loving him is the indwelling gift of the Father—the Adjuster who so patiently awaits the hour when you both shall be eternally made one. Though you cannot find God by searching, if you will submit to the leading of the indwelling spirit, you will be unerringly guided, step by step, life by life, through universe upon universe, and age by age, until you finally stand in the presence of the Paradise personality of the Universal Father.

     

    :-)

    #42488
    Avatar
    urantia4me
    Participant

    Hello Bradly & Mark! Nice to be back on the forum. “Greater context” (mentioned by Bradly) as I read the UB has been very helpful to my greater understanding, leading to definite “a-ha” moments (referenced by Mark). (Yes Mark, I have heard of that bi-directionality concept before, in some metaphysical literature, but was nice to know that you were also aware of it.) I still have a LOT more to read in the UB. I purposely read a little slower than normal because every word of every sentence in every paragraph is full of valuable information – exactly what I would expect from a book gradually provided by non-human, advanced beings. And thank you Mara for referencing the Paper that addresses the subject of angels working with subnormal minds. I will read that soon. And I can appreciate Bart’s struggle to better understand some of the comments in the UB that some people could perceive as harsh or unfeeling, such as Thought Adjusters choosing to only work with those humans with normal functioning minds after the 1st moral choice is made. My guess is that such choosing is simply out of necessity to maximize the experiences of the Thought Adjusters. (Likewise, all of us humans would prefer to work with good quality tools whenever & wherever we work in order to be most efficient.)  I would add one more idea to the good replies given to Bart…one thing that was made clear in the “God The Supreme” Paper was that ANY experience of value from ANY human will be preserved and utilized by the emerging God The Supreme. So the lives of humans are NEVER completely wasted, even if some Thought Adjusters don’t continue to work with certain humans. It’s late for me, so goodnite everyone.

    #42489
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    Mark Kurtz
    Participant

    U4 me,

    It seems right to me that a person/soul interested in self improvement and is adventurous enough to give time to thinking about progress, is living right. Reincarnation involves a desire for change, whether such change is a “doctrinal obedience” provision or is a curiosity based mind wander into the unknown. Change and improvement are not stagnation nor a static situation. Mind is a wonderful thing to use!

    Revelation is needed to advance mortals further along to higher divine ideals and understanding of material and spirit realities. Spirit, being the source of mind and provision for material energies, must be understood as best as one can experience, being a factor we cannot measure, physically observe or sense. Mind is the only “arena” in which all life can move in spirit relationships. So, as an improvement seeking soul puts forth increasing effort, spirit personalities observe and help advance such a soul.

    The original thoughts, ideas and beliefs about coming back to this Earth as another person, insect, animal or other provision came from persons missing advanced information. We need to give them a break and understand they did their best. Revelation sorts and saves a lot of time for correcting and advancing humankind toward truthful understanding and spirit relationships. Paper 19:1.5-6 has many times helped me to “see” into the future for possibilities on most anything. Destiny is like the destination on a flight plan for an airplane trip; seeing the end is an important journey concept. Note what the Divine Counselor wrote:

    19:1.5 For example: The human mind would ordinarily crave to approach the cosmic philosophy portrayed in these revelations by proceeding from the simple and the finite to the complex and the infinite, from human origins to divine destinies. But that path does not lead to spiritual wisdom. Such a procedure is the easiest path to a certain form of genetic knowledge, but at best it can only reveal man’s origin; it reveals little or nothing about his divine destiny.

     19:1.6 Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.

    Lets give honor to those who want improvement and give honor to God for helping us with succeeding revelation over time!

    #42492

    U4 me, It seems right to me that a person/soul interested in self improvement and is adventurous enough to give time to thinking about progress, is living right. Reincarnation involves a desire for change, whether such change is a “doctrinal obedience” provision or is a curiosity based mind wander into the unknown. Change and improvement are not stagnation nor a static situation. Mind is a wonderful thing to use! Revelation is needed to advance mortals further along to higher divine ideals and understanding of material and spirit realities. Spirit, being the source of mind and provision for material energies, must be understood as best as one can experience, being a factor we cannot measure, physically observe or sense. Mind is the only “arena” in which all life can move in spirit relationships. So, as an improvement seeking soul puts forth increasing effort, spirit personalities observe and help advance such a soul. The original thoughts, ideas and beliefs about coming back to this Earth as another person, insect, animal or other provision came from persons missing advanced information. We need to give them a break and understand they did their best. Revelation sorts and saves a lot of time for correcting and advancing humankind toward truthful understanding and spirit relationships. Paper 19:1.5-6 has many times helped me to “see” into the future for possibilities on most anything. Destiny is like the destination on a flight plan for an airplane trip; seeing the end is an important journey concept. Note what the Divine Counselor wrote: 19:1.5 For example: The human mind would ordinarily crave to approach the cosmic philosophy portrayed in these revelations by proceeding from the simple and the finite to the complex and the infinite, from human origins to divine destinies. But that path does not lead to spiritual wisdom. Such a procedure is the easiest path to a certain form of genetic knowledge, but at best it can only reveal man’s origin; it reveals little or nothing about his divine destiny. 19:1.6 Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status. Lets give honor to those who want improvement and give honor to God for helping us with succeeding revelation over time!”

    “Here! Here!  Mark, good points…

    For no other motive or agenda other than an unassailable respect for the reasoning abilities of the human species, and ask my mate, I am wearing a tin foil hat while I jump in with this ;-)

    I just want to point out this from Paper 12 – Universal Gravity about measuring Spirit:

    “2. Spiritual Gravity. By the same technique of comparative estimation and calculation these researchers have explored the present reaction capacity of spirit gravity and, with the co-operation of Solitary Messengers and other spirit personalities, have arrived at the summation of the active spirit gravity of the Second Source and Center. And it is most instructive to note that they find about the same value for the actual and functional presence of spirit gravity in the grand universe that they postulate for the present total of active spirit gravity. In other words: At the present time practically the entire spirit gravity of the Eternal Son, computed on this theory of totality, is observable as functioning in the grand universe. If these findings are dependable, we may conclude that the universes now evolving in outer space are at the present time wholly nonspiritual. And if this is true, it would satisfactorily explain why spirit-endowed beings are in possession of little or no information about these vast energy manifestations aside from knowing the fact of their physical existence.”

    _____________________________________________________________

    Mark wrote, “Spirit, being the source of mind and provision for material energies, must be understood as best as one can experience, being a factor we cannot measure, physically observe or sense.”

    I have a “private school” education background that had “religion” as a separate category for study until 12th grade, and then in the same “private school” tradition High School, it got bottom-lined into “Physics and Philosophy” – LOL

    We basically learned about cultures that had religious traditions.  So I really enjoyed reading Part III – The History of Urantia because it added so much depth to what I had already glimpsed out to be a “TRUTH” truth.  We all have our standards for discovering THE TRUTH, so to speak, and mine was simple, it has to have all three to be a real discovery – TRUTH, Beauty, Goodness – Divine Attributes found as a Life Experience.  God is not in hiding, remember…?

    It was not lost on me that the fairness with which we were both praised and corrected by the authors would be a “social engineering” problem, especially looking at what happened between 1934 and today…

    Discussions about religion with people from India have been the least fraught with tyranny applied from the start of the conversation – in my personal experience, anyway.

    May the FER “Aha!” gifts keep piling up….

    Everyone wants out of whatever this is – “globally” – right now.

    #42494
    Avatar
    fordstar7
    Participant

    A thank you to U4, Mark, Bradly and all the other brilliant minds on this forum.  Thanks to a single term ,”earth- centric” by Bradly has made me realize how I conveniently overlooked the rest of the universe with respect to human destiny.  Reincarnation, in my mind, had a more appealing view on managing the thoughts of the seeming unfairness of the human condition and I could rationalize that all the mortals born into or suffering from the brutalities inflicted on them somehow was of their own making.  This limited and narrow view was comforting to a degree which satisfied me as a doctrine to live by.  However, the UB has a way of disrupting one’s comfort zone when it challenges a long held belief.  Bradly reminded me that the “earth-centric” view is very limited indeed.  It’s funny how just one phrase or word can prompt one to change the view to one of wider perspective.   I guess the reincarnation concept put me on the path to finding the UB so it was a necessary and helpful step to a wider view.  I still sometimes get a headache trying to understand most of it but will never give up trying to.

    Thanks again for all the help I get from all who respond to this topic

    Stay well

     

    Bart

     

     

     

    #42495
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    It is a good mind and seeker and  student and tadpole that can transcend preconceptions and expand perspective to see further, wider, and deeper into reality.  It takes courage and faith to challenge our own beliefs and views.   But like spiritization and wisdom, reality perspective must be progressive.

    I have found new meanings and an ever enlarging perception of universe reality and truths by every visit to the Papers.   Follow the Path and Way.  It leads to Paradise.

    The UB is not itself the path or the journey upon the path…but it is a welcome guidebook and lantern upon that path and for that transcendent journey of adventure.

    :good:

    1:0.3 (21.3) The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.

    1:0.4 (22.1) This magnificent and universal injunction to strive for the attainment of the perfection of divinity is the first duty, and should be the highest ambition, of all the struggling creature creation of the God of perfection. This possibility of the attainment of divine perfection is the final and certain destiny of all man’s eternal spiritual progress.

    1:0.5 (22.2) Urantia mortals can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness.

    1:0.6 (22.3) This is the true meaning of that divine command, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect,” which ever urges mortal man onward and beckons him inward in that long and fascinating struggle for the attainment of higher and higher levels of spiritual values and true universe meanings. This sublime search for the God of universes is the supreme adventure of the inhabitants of all the worlds of time and space.

    11:9.8 (127.6) After all, to mortals the most important thing about eternal Paradise is the fact that this perfect abode of the Universal Father is the real and far-distant destiny of the immortal souls of the mortal and material sons of God, the ascending creatures of the evolutionary worlds of time and space. Every God-knowing mortal who has espoused the career of doing the Father’s will has already embarked upon the long, long Paradise trail of divinity pursuit and perfection attainment. And when such an animal-origin being does stand, as countless numbers now do, before the Gods on Paradise, having ascended from the lowly spheres of space, such an achievement represents the reality of a spiritual transformation bordering on the limits of supremacy.

    :good:

    100:1.4 (1094.6) ….Loyal persons are growing persons, and growth is an impressive and inspiring reality. Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.

    ;-)

    It’s great to be a tadpole in God’s pond!!!

    #42563
    Avatar
    urantia4me
    Participant

    Yes Mark, you are right about the need for revelation as presented in the UB. There much in the UB that I would never have guessed on my own, even with the various metaphysical books I’ve read. (Btw, I meant to tell you Bradly that I really appreciated you sharing how years ago you believed in reincarnation until you read the UB.) For “namelessuntilfused”, I can very much relate to your private religious schooling – actually graduated for such a University! And for Bart, I want share something with you from Emanuel Swedenborg that you will appreciate now that you are studying the UB, since some things he researched spoke about fits very well with the UB.

    Sorry that I took so long to reply; I have been thrust in something odd & unexpected as I travel back forth to work and elsewhere within a seemingly certain radius – almost like a stalking by what may be a network of individuals in there small cars made into sports cars – almost like what’s shown in the movies “Fast & Furious”. They have all been college-age young adults driving wreakless whenever & wherever they find me on various roads within a certain radius. I really don’t know how this fits into the grand scheme of “all things working together for good for those who love God”. Wish we humans could easily communicate with our Thought Adjusters or with angels to ask about difficult life situations.

    Now this part is for Bart…Swedenborg said that we humans can be easily fooled into thinking that the lives of others are somehow connected to us (the current Urantians) simply by non-physical beings ATTEMPTING to communicate telepathically with us. (Now, keep in mind the UB does NOT support the idea of telepathy, but I’m sharing this to help you more easily let go of the idea of reincarnation.) If “spirits” try to communicate with us using THEIR own minds instead of communicating through OUR minds, then the humans will mistakenly assume that the memories of the communicators are really the memories of human past lives. He added that the “gift of the Holy Spirit” included perfect clarity to distinguish between individual human thoughts & and thoughts from others. (No wonder the UB states reincarnation is false!) Anyway, just some “thoughts” for everyone :-)

    #42565

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    Hi urantia4me!

    You wrote, “…Wish we humans could easily communicate with our Thought Adjusters or with angels to ask about difficult life situations…”

    The Thought Adjusters are preparing us for cosmic citizenship, so to speak.  So sometimes the “advice” for us who are at our first rodeo ;-) is going to be simply practical and take some imagination to implement until the cavalry arrives…”keep ’em guessing”.  It’s a war.  Orks can’t be blamed for being Orks, but that doesn’t mean the other LIFE species on this planet can’t defend our “philosophy for living” based on Who/Why are we? as a species.

    When you re-read Papers 85 thru 91 which cover the “deep past” of Urantia, its obvious that any “deep state” self-proclaimed secret global government is the 200K+ year mind sickness launched by Lucifer – that whole “orgy of death and darkness” that has been powered up by the “internet”, no doubt about it.

    FACT is no one or no “government institution”, like “health care”, has the right to buzz you, secretly, with SCIENTIFICALLY-PROVEN-TO-BE-HARMFUL EMFs.

    Future survival really does depend on NOT using the internet “cloud”…no one to blame but themselves for the loss of their business power, imo.

    Vegas has the exact same problem with the local motorheads right now…guess everyone has a different “vision” for re-inventing themselves based on what was so good in the countries they immigrated from to participate in the “dream”…. :good:

    The “bad aliens” need to be reassigned to the realms of outer space uninhabited by beings attuning to Universal Spirit and Personality Gravity circuits.  It’s obvious they are so bored doing their experimental “science” in the boundaries that protect the operations of a Nursery of LIFE – all this “post human” and “post truth” crap….I’m as SPIRITUALLY bored with them as they are with URANTIA LIFE FORMS.

    If there are any “voices” in my head that are not mine, I imagine them based on what critics, er, “influencers” are already getting paid to do – can you imagine how they will “comment” on the “chariot of fire” a person produces when fusion with TA is achieved….?

    “I give it a “5”.  It lacked enough of the color green.”

    Oy vey :-(

     

     

     

     

    #42567
    Avatar
    urantia4me
    Participant

    Sorry if I seemed to be rambling last nite – I was starting to fall asleep😀 But I appreciate your somewhat unusual style of making your points, and trying to help me feel better about my situation, namelessuntilfused. We can thank the Lucifer Rebellion for taking Earthlings off course, tho we should thank the fused Jesus-Michael for trying to bring us back on course, tho after reading parts of the UB, it seems that that fused being 2000 years ago had more of a greater cosmic goal in mind from which Urantia can benefit. Also, I’ve seen/heard of some of the others topics you mentioned from books and the internet. How long before we are microchipped?! Actually, best to stay within UB topics, tho I’m well-aware of many of the ways that our world is needlessly being corrupted. You know, I get the impression from the UB that our lives are so relative short on Earth that no matter what happens, we will each be given the opportunity (after death) to learn from our shortcomings on Earth without reincarnation. (I hope I made clear from the example I gave last nite that I was NOT promoting telepathy – rather, it was to show another possible way in which humans could mistakenly believe in reincarnation.) Ok – getting sleepy again, so adios amigos!

    #42568
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    Hi urantia4me! You wrote, “…Wish we humans could easily communicate with our Thought Adjusters or with angels to ask about difficult life situations…” The Thought Adjusters are preparing us for cosmic citizenship, so to speak. So sometimes the “advice” for us who are at our first rodeo ;-) is going to be simply practical and take some imagination to implement until the cavalry arrives…”keep ’em guessing”. It’s a war. Orks can’t be blamed for being Orks, but that doesn’t mean the other LIFE specieson this planet can’t defend our “philosophy for living” based on Who/Why are we? as a species. When you re-read Papers 85 thru 91 which cover the “deep past” of Urantia, its obvious that any “deep state” self-proclaimed secret global government is the 200K+ year mind sickness launched by Lucifer – that whole “orgy of death and darkness” that has been powered up by the “internet”, no doubt about it. FACT is no one or no “government institution”, like “health care”, has the right to buzz you, secretly, with SCIENTIFICALLY-PROVEN-TO-BE-HARMFUL EMFs.Future survival really does depend on NOT using the internet “cloud”…no one to blame but themselves for the loss of their business power, imo. Vegas has the exact same problem with the local motorheads right now…guess everyone has a different “vision” for re-inventing themselves based on what was so good in the countries they immigrated from to participate in the “dream”…. :good: The “bad aliens” need to be reassigned to the realms of outer space uninhabited by beings attuning to Universal Spirit and Personality Gravity circuits. It’s obvious they are so bored doing their experimental “science” in the boundaries that protect the operations of a Nursery of LIFE – all this “post human” and “post truth” crap….I’m as SPIRITUALLY bored with them as they are with URANTIA LIFE FORMS. If there are any “voices” in my head that are not mine, I imagine them based on what critics, er, “influencers” are already getting paid to do – can you imagine how they will “comment” on the “chariot of fire” a person produces when fusion with TA is achieved….? “I give it a “5”. It lacked enough of the color green.” Oy vey :-(

    Wow!!  So many issues of  contradiction with the Urantia Book to consider.  First…ENOUGH with the personal politics.  Nobody here cares about your political rhetoric or agenda or opinions.  Absolutely nothing could possibly be less relevant here!  Or less welcome.  At least 5 different posters have expressed this opinion.  Please STOP!

    Why the mods allow this shrill and radicalized ranting and raving about political positions and blame and disappointments is beyond comprehension.  This makes 4 topics hijacked and sent down a rabbit hole of irrational lunacy based on paranoid delusions which defy the Papers in content and perspective…

    What might newer students just discovering the Papers or this study group think about such politicized and paranoid rhetoric I wonder?

    The “cavalry” will not be arriving – simply because they have never left.  Indeed the perspective being imposed on us here as shown above is a sad and desperate reflection of immaturity and a narrow minded and one-eyed perspective without any dimensional or contextual reality whatsoever.  According to the UB we are not abandoned or forsaken and God is not indifferent or in hiding nor are we being punished for original sin or the sin of our forbearers.  All such claims are contradictions of the text.

    Our world is in the care and keeping of the most powerful and loving and experienced forces of leadership and management in Nebadon, and we are certainly and measurably and obviously progressing through the evolutionary mortal epochs of time as we march ever forward, toward our inevitable destiny of Light and Life.  How blind must one be to not see Urantia’s epochal progress…in addition to our obvious challenges at this intersection of evolutionary transition.

    The UB is so clear and so redundant about this fact and truth…from cover to cover.  A review of Papers 81 to 91 will provide definitive evidence of our continued evolutionary progress and Paper 114 will give assurance of our certain care and affectionate leadership.

    81:0.1 (900.1) REGARDLESS of the ups and downs of the miscarriage of the plans for world betterment projected in the missions of Caligastia and Adam, the basic organic evolution of the human species continued to carry the races forward in the scale of human progress and racial development. Evolution can be delayed but it cannot be stopped.

    114:0.4 (1250.4) Urantia is not without proper and effective supervision from the system, constellation, and universe rulers. But the planetary government is unlike that of any other world in the Satania system, even in all Nebadon….

    119:8.8 (1319.1) Urantia is the sentimental shrine of all Nebadon, the chief of ten million inhabited worlds, the mortal home of Christ Michael, sovereign of all Nebadon, a Melchizedek minister to the realms, a system savior, an Adamic redeemer, a seraphic fellow, an associate of ascending spirits, a morontia progressor, a Son of Man in the likeness of mortal flesh, and the Planetary Prince of Urantia. And your record tells the truth when it says that this same Jesus has promised sometime to return to the world of his terminal bestowal, the World of the Cross.

    Me here: There is only one species on this world.  And no one is whisked away…ever…to some isolated and lifeless damnation of any kind at any time for any reason…..ever!

    There are no “bad aliens” except in someone’s twisted imagination and tormented dementia.

    And there is no war!  Falsehood.  The rebellion is long over.

    We can only solve our world’s issues by the power of love and service to one another….even and especially to those nameless claims to be of a different species (orks?).  More code talking and more contradictions to the UB and the teachings of the Master.

    Conspiracy theories are for ignorant and weak minded persons who do not think but only blame others for their own disappointments and failures in this life and certainly have not read or do not believe the UB teachings.  And how something can be secret and deep state and proclaimed at the same time is just silly.  Blaming the internet and electricity and pandemic for the world’s ills is more than a little disturbing….and even more ridiculous!  Get a grip!!

    This voice of doom and gloom imposed upon this community exemplifies those among us who are consumed by fear and doubt and disappointment and blame and anger and hate.  It is the very antithesis of what we share here together and the Good News that has been delivered to us in the Papers and the Jesusonian Gospel before….both of which are filled with assurances of our affectionate care and evolutionary progress and connection to Deity.

    We are taught that believers do NOT quiver and quake in fear and are NOT consumed by disappointment, blame, and despair.  Believers in the Jesusonian Gospel become reoriented and invigorated and gain confidence and assurance by the Divine Connection of branch to vine and the fruits of the Spirit which come by that connection:

    100:2.7 (1096.4) Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

    100:2.8 (1096.5) After such spiritual attainment, whether secured by gradual growth or specific crisis, there occurs a new orientation of personality as well as the development of a new standard of values. Such spirit-born individuals are so remotivated in life that they can calmly stand by while their fondest ambitions perish and their keenest hopes crash; they positively know that such catastrophes are but the redirecting cataclysms which wreck one’s temporal creations preliminary to the rearing of the more noble and enduring realities of a new and more sublime level of universe attainment.

    So….Why is this voice here?  What is the agenda?  Not to learn.  Not to inspire or give hope or to discover the UB or share its good news.

    So very negative.  So sad.  So desperate.  So paranoid.  So unfortunate.  So blind.  So misinformed…even delusional. So inappropriate here.

    Such misrepresentation and contradiction of the good news.  Here of all places.

    How long must we bear this burden I wonder?  Perhaps such contrast and contradiction of the Gospel of the Good News might help those who find their way here to embrace truth, beauty, and goodness and to trust God and fear not the evils of this world.  The future is bright for those who believe in God and our world is not doomed but is cherished and guided forward into our evolutionary destiny by the most able Christ Michael and his celestial hosts and we are also connected personally to God and in the Gravity Circuits of Divinity.  Only courage and faith and love can deliver us and our world to our destinies.  Fear not and be not anxious.  Trust God.  This is the message of the Urantia Papers and the Jesusonian Gospel of 2000 years ago!

    :-(

    And please pay no attention to or give creedence to any voice of doom and gloom and doubt and despair who offers only anger and fear and blame and guilt and disappointment and suspicion by their words here.  All such doubt and fear and doom and gloom is irrelevant to reality and blind to the teachings of the UB we share here.

    Remember:

    130:4.4 (1434.3) A one-eyed person can never hope to visualize depth of perspective. Neither can single-eyed material scientists nor single-eyed spiritual mystics and allegorists correctly visualize and adequately comprehend the true depths of universe reality. All true values of creature experience are concealed in depth of recognition.

    153:3.5. ……if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the pit…

     

    ;-)

    #42569
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Sorry if I seemed to be rambling last nite – I was starting to fall asleep😀 But I appreciate your somewhat unusual style of making your points, and trying to help me feel better about my situation, namelessuntilfused. We can thank the Lucifer Rebellion for taking Earthlings off course, tho we should thank the fused Jesus-Michael for trying to bring us back on course, tho after reading parts of the UB, it seems that that fused being 2000 years ago had more of a greater cosmic goal in mind from which Urantia can benefit. Also, I’ve seen/heard of some of the others topics you mentioned from books and the internet. How long before we are microchipped?! Actually, best to stay within UB topics, tho I’m well-aware of many of the ways that our world is needlessly being corrupted. You know, I get the impression from the UB that our lives are so relative short on Earth that no matter what happens, we will each be given the opportunity (after death) to learn from our shortcomings on Earth without reincarnation. (I hope I made clear from the example I gave last nite that I was NOT promoting telepathy – rather, it was to show another possible way in which humans could mistakenly believe in reincarnation.) Ok – getting sleepy again, so adios amigos!

    Nicely said Michael!!

    We are all aware of the many ways our world has been corrupted!  The UB provides great detail as to the causes of evil and sin and its repercussions…and its limits….and its solutions!!  And indeed it is so that Christ Michael has us on course!  He is not trying only but he and his team are succeeding in big ways!!

    So…regarding telepathy.  I don’t think mortals who are air breathers can be senders or receivers…but I look forward to other opinions and supporting text.

    I think reincarnation is believable simply because survival of death is believable.  We are wired to feel this potential and yearn and hope for life beyond death.  Also, we were taught by the Prince’s staff and the Nodites and the Amondonites and Adam and Eve and the Adamites and the Andites and Melchezidek and Jesus (ALL) for hundreds of thousands of years that life beyond death is fact and truth.  Our world’s mythologies are all based on these truths and facts known, taught, and believed for most of our history.

    And, as I said earlier, the fiction that is reincarnation is still closer to the truth than the Christian mythology of soul perfection upon death survival.  Reincarnation feels functionally believable I think.

    So I still do not agree that people believe it because of memories or messages received by others, whether on this world or on any other.  There are other practical and scientific explanations for belief in prior life so called memories.  But it is also a small point in my own opinion and worth an interesting quibble but no real or great argument.

    There are worlds of non-breathers and marine-mortals to consider however.  How might they communicate?  Consider reading Paper 49 for some eye opening realities to consider about mortal life!!

    49:2.14 (561.13) If mortals should inhabit a planet devoid of air, like your moon, they would belong to the separate order of nonbreathers. This type represents a radical or extreme adjustment to the planetary environment and is separately considered.

    49:3.1 (563.4) The majority of inhabited planets are peopled with the breathing type of intelligent beings. But there are also orders of mortals who are able to live on worlds with little or no air. Of the Orvonton inhabited worlds this type amounts to less than seven per cent. In Nebadon this percentage is less than three. In all Satania there are only nine such worlds.

    49:3.4 (563.7) Life on the worlds of the nonbreathers is radically different from what it is on Urantia. The nonbreathers do not eat food or drink water as do the Urantia races. The reactions of the nervous system, the heat-regulating mechanism, and the metabolism of these specialized peoples are radically different from such functions of Urantia mortals. Almost every act of living, aside from reproduction, differs, and even the methods of procreation are somewhat different.

    Me here:  Back to telepathy….it certainly does exist.  The Material Sons and Daughters (Adams and Eves) employ such communication by the function of a specific gland as I recall.

    74:6.6 (834.8) Adam and Eve could communicate with each other and with their immediate children over a distance of about fifty miles. This thought exchange was effected by means of the delicate gas chambers located in close proximity to their brain structures. By this mechanism they could send and receive thought oscillations. But this power was instantly suspended upon the mind’s surrender to the discord and disruption of evil.

    Me here:  Glad you are here Michael!  I have really enjoyed our discussion on reincarnation and the discovery of the Papers.  I hope you find the telepathy post from Paper 74 interesting.  That is something I always believed in since my youth and time in SciFi….communication between people without verbalization.

    There’s also some material about kindred spirits and how the thinking of a few or several or many can run in channels of like mindedness.  And it is hypothesized by science that many human technologies seem to have sprung up universally rather than by radial dispersion!  How so?  If one mind can conceive of something, do all minds gain access somehow to such progressive thinking and knowledge?  So much to learn…and so fascinating to learn about it!  To think….we have a vast expanse of knowledge and wisdom to acquire in the eternal adventure to come!  Such understanding should propel us forward in glee and anticipation and wonderment!

    7:1.6 (82.5) Spirit-gravity pull and response thereto operate not only on the universe as a whole but also even between individuals and groups of individuals. There is a spiritual cohesiveness among the spiritual and spiritized personalities of any world, race, nation, or believing group of individuals. There is a direct attractiveness of a spirit nature between spiritually minded persons of like tastes and longings. The term kindred spirits is not wholly a figure of speech.

    16:6.3 (191.6) The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.

     

    :good:    Thanks for being here!  I hope to share more discovery adventure with you.  You are obviously eager to find truth and learn and share that with others.  Well done!

    Bradly

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