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    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Rick Warren wrote: How does breaking the legs cause death, by asphyxiation?

    The legs are needed to push the body upward in order to reduce the weight on the arms and upper body so the ribs expand and contract properly. Jesus’ cross did have a large peg, or saddle, designed to support some of the body weight, but he would still need his legs to prevent slipping off of it. Below is from wikipedia:

    A theory attributed to Pierre Barbet holds that, when the whole body weight was supported by the stretched arms, the typical cause of death was asphyxiation. He wrote that the condemned would have severe difficulty inhaling, due to hyper-expansion of the chest muscles and lungs. The condemned would therefore have to draw himself up by his arms, leading to exhaustion, or have his feet supported by tying or by a wood block. When no longer able to lift himself, the condemned would die within a few minutes. Some scholars, including Frederick Zugibe, posit other causes of death. Zugibe suspended test subjects with their arms at 60° to 70° from the vertical. The test subjects had no difficulty breathing during experiments, but did suffer rapidly increasing pain, which is consistent with the Roman use of crucifixion to achieve a prolonged, agonizing death.

    Thanks! that’s interesting–in a gruesome way. Seems like it would be easier to simply pull the saddle peg out and let gravity, exhaustion and pain do the work, especially since pain was the point. Ugh.


    Richard E Warren

    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren

    Welcome to The OPAD Online Study Session

    Today’s Presentation

    Paper 187 – The Crucifixion

    6. After the Crucifixion

        In the midst of the darkness of the sandstorm, about half past three o’clock, David Zebedee sent out the last of the messengers carrying the news of the Master’s death. The last of his runners he dispatched to the home of Martha and Mary in Bethany, where he supposed the mother of Jesus stopped with the rest of her family.

    (2011.6)187:6.2 After the death of the Master, John sent the women, in charge of Jude, to the home of Elijah Mark, where they tarried over the Sabbath day. John himself, being well known by this time to the Roman centurion, remained at Golgotha until Joseph and Nicodemus arrived on the scene with an order from Pilate authorizing them to take possession of the body of Jesus.

    (2011.7)187:6.3 Thus ended a day of tragedy and sorrow for a vast universe whose myriads of intelligences had shuddered at the shocking spectacle of the crucifixion of the human incarnation of their beloved Sovereign; they were stunned by this exhibition of mortal callousness and human perversity.


    [Each OPAD presentation is copied from The Urantia Book published by Urantia Foundation. Questions and comments related to the Paper under discussion are welcome and encouraged. In-depth questions and related topics may be studied in branch threads in the OPAD, or other subforums, as you require. Thank you for studying with us.]

    Richard E Warren

    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren


    Greetings Bonita, nelsong, Bradly, Alina, Carolyn, Carola, Fellow Students, Forum Friends, Members and Visitors,

    …they were stunned by this exhibition of mortal callousness and human perversity…. (2011.7)187:6.3

    And so are we. But, being human, I can understand how humans act sometimes, with utter and total selfishness, with little to no regard for the well being and feelings of others. In most cases we simply don’t know, and don’t care to know, the better way, never learned it and never tried it. It’s too scary and the rewards are too remote and uncertain. Besides, tradition rules our lives. If our ancestors say it is so, then it is so, damn the facts and the revelation that goodness has visited Urantia in human form, inviting us to participate in the divine plan of spreading truth and perfecting goodness across time and space.

    The most beautiful part of this, the ugliest scene ever, is that God and the Master went right on loving the humans who did this awful, cruel thing, and everyone before and since. Divine love must be “inconcussible”. It is also beautiful, enlightening, and inspiring to see how our God incarnate reacted to such callous perversity, with absolute divine compassion and transcendent self-forgetfulness.


    From today’s OPAD:

    …After the death of the Master, John sent the women, in charge of Jude, to the home of Elijah Mark, where they tarried over the Sabbath day…. (2011.6)187:6.2





    The Mark home, Bethany, and Golgotha were cited in today’s reading, all are shown on these maps:






    The Midwayers don’t mention it, but I can’t help thinking how appropriate the timing of this sandstorm is. Anyone who has been in a sandstorm has more than likely felt the overwhelming oppressiveness and inescapability of it, that awful feeling that the light is gone and misery has set in, at least for a while.

    The synoptic Gospels all cite the storm, and add a bit of mysticism. When Jesus died, there was supposedly a material reaction in the temple, and in the earth, according to Matthew 27:

    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent…

    From Mark 15:

    38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

    From Luke 23:

    45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.


    Thus ends the story of the life and death of Jesus on Urantia, also Michael’s seventh and final bestowal, at least the difficult part, the incarnation. Next he will resurrect and appear before many groups of believers, on Urantia and elsewhere in Nebadon.

    But first the Midwayers will sum up his life and teachings in Paper 188. In 188’s introduction they will provide some of the details of the period between his death and resurrection, mostly regarding the removal and entombment of the body, as the Sanhedrinists try to have it thrown into a pit with the other two criminals, but Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus get permission from Pilate to take it.


    Overview of: Paper 187 – The Crucifixion

    1. On the Way to Golgotha

    2. The Crucifixion

    3. Those Who Saw the Crucifixion

    4. The Thief on the Cross

    5. Last Hour on the Cross

    6. After the Crucifixion

    This group of papers [121-196] was sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek revelatory director. The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary midwayer who was onetime assigned to the superhuman watchcare of the Apostle Andrew.

    Listen to Paper 187: (click the speaker icon at the top of the page)

    Thanks for reading. Members’ thoughts, reflections, insights, observations, comments, corrections and questions about today’s OPAD presentation are invited.

    Much love, Rick/OPAD host.

    Richard E Warren


    they were stunned by this exhibition of mortal callousness and human perversity…. (2011.7)187:6.3


    They should have known the capacity of human behavior by now, don’t you think?

    Seeing it acted out I suppose would stun anybody and it is likely that many observers may have been looking in on us for the first time because of this tragic event.


Viewing 4 posts - 16 through 19 (of 19 total)

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