PAPER 185 – THE TRIAL BEFORE PILATE

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  • #10134
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    nelsong
    Participant

    Pregnancy! :-)

    Lol

    #10136
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    How about grandchildren?

    128:6.12 As his own brothers and sisters grew up, as he gained more leisure, and before the grandchildrenarrived, he paid a great deal of attention to these little ones. But he did not live on earth long enough to enjoy the grandchildren very much.

    #10149
    Avatar
    nelsong
    Participant

    How about grandchildren?

    128:6.12 As his own brothers and sisters grew up, as he gained more leisure, and before the grandchildrenarrived, he paid a great deal of attention to these little ones. But he did not live on earth long enough to enjoy the grandchildren very much.

    So what do you think the implications of that are?

    #10219
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Welcome to The OPAD Online Study Session

    Today’s Presentation

    Paper 185 – The Trial Before Pilate

    7. Pilate’s Last Interview

       As Pilate, trembling with fearful emotion, sat down by the side of Jesus, he inquired: “Where do you come from? Really, who are you? What is this they say, that you are the Son of God?”

    (1996.1)185:7.2 But Jesus could hardly answer such questions when asked by a man-fearing, weak, and vacillating judge who was so unjust as to subject him to flogging even when he had declared him innocent of all crime, and before he had been duly sentenced to die. Jesus looked Pilate straight in the face, but he did not answer him. Then said Pilate: “Do you refuse to speak to me? Do you not realize that I still have power to release you or to crucify you?” Then said Jesus: “You could have no power over me except it were permitted from above. You could exercise no authority over the Son of Man unless the Father in heaven allowed it. But you are not so guilty since you are ignorant of the gospel. He who betrayed me and he who delivered me to you, they have the greater sin.”

    (1996.2)185:7.3 This last talk with Jesus thoroughly frightened Pilate. This moral coward and judicial weakling now labored under the double weight of the superstitious fear of Jesus and mortal dread of the Jewish leaders.

    (1996.3)185:7.4 Again Pilate appeared before the crowd, saying: “I am certain this man is only a religious offender. You should take him and judge him by your law. Why should you expect that I would consent to his death because he has clashed with your traditions?”

    (1996.4)185:7.5 Pilate was just about ready to release Jesus when Caiaphas, the high priest, approached the cowardly Roman judge and, shaking an avenging finger in Pilate’s face, said with angry words which the entire multitude could hear: “If you release this man, you are not Caesar’s friend, and I will see that the emperor knows all.” This public threat was too much for Pilate. Fear for his personal fortunes now eclipsed all other considerations, and the cowardly governor ordered Jesus brought out before the judgment seat. As the Master stood there before them, he pointed to him and tauntingly said, “Behold your king.” And the Jews answered, “Away with him. Crucify him!” And then Pilate said, with much irony and sarcasm, “Shall I crucify your king?” And the Jews answered, “Yes, crucify him! We have no king but Caesar.” And then did Pilate realize that there was no hope of saving Jesus since he was unwilling to defy the Jews.

     

    ***

    [Each OPAD presentation is copied from The Urantia Book published by Urantia Foundation. Questions and comments related to the Paper under discussion are welcome and encouraged. In-depth questions and related topics may be studied in branch threads in the OPAD, or other subforums, as you require. Thank you for studying with us.]

    #10220
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

     

    .

    Greetings nelsong, Bonita, Brad, Alina, Carola, Fellow Students, Forum Friends, Members and Guests,

    Pilate seems to realize on some level this is THE pivotal decision of his fear-ridden life, even of an age! It’s insane I know, but I can’t help feeling sorry for him, caught between a love for material things and a vexing fear of an unknown and invisible spirit world.

    Jesus has just been flogged and is about to lose his life, but it is Pilate who is shaking. From today’s text:

    …As Pilate, trembling with fearful emotion, sat down by the side of Jesus, he inquired: “Where do you come from? Really, who are you? What is this they say, that you are the Son of God?” (1995.7)185:7.1

    He seems sincere, even if full of fear and selfishness. Maybe Pilate will get some mercy credits for being merely ignorant. Jesus appears to suggest that in today’s reading:

    “…you are not so guilty since you are ignorant of the gospel. He who betrayed me and he who delivered me to you, they have the greater sin….” (1996.1)185:7.2

    The betrayer was Judas of course, the deliverers must be the Sanhedrin members, especially Caiaphas. This fellow elicits no sympathy from anyone but the crazed mob. His seems to be a presence of pure evil, but maybe even he will get credit for ignorance. Who can say in finality except Ancients of Days?

    From today’s reading:

    …Pilate was just about ready to release Jesus when Caiaphas, the high priest, approached the cowardly Roman judge and, shaking an avenging finger in Pilate’s face, said with angry words which the entire multitude could hear: “If you release this man, you are not Caesar’s friend, and I will see that the emperor knows all….” (1996.4)185:7.5

    As previously noted, John’s Gospel recorded many details of this second meeting with Pilate, in chapter 19:

    And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.

    10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

    11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

    12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

    13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

    14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

    15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

    ***

    Several paintings of Pilate’s decisive moment were created during and after the European Renaissance, all titled “Ecce Homo”–Behold the Man!

    Ecce_homo_by_Antonio_Ciseri_%281%29.jpg

    Antonio Ciseri‘s depiction of Ecce Homo, 1871.

    IMAGE SOURCE

    1024px-Munk%C3%A1csy_Ecce_Homo_part.JPG

    Ecce Homo by Mihály Munkácsy 1896.

    IMAGE SOURCE

     

    James_Tissot_Ecce_Homo_350.jpg

    IMAGE SOURCE

    From Wikipedia:

    Ecce homo are the Latin words used by Pontius Pilate in the Vulgate translation of John 19:5, when he presents a scourged Jesus Christ, bound and crowned with thorns, to a hostile crowd shortly before his Crucifixion…The King James Version translates the phrase into English as “Behold the man!”[John 19:5] The scene is widely depicted in Christian art.

    ***

    Tomorrow’s reading, Section 8. Pilate’s Tragic Surrender, is just two paragraphs in which Pilate capitulates, then symbolically washes his hands, while the mad mob gleefully celebrates bringing untold suffering to their children, and their children’s children, right up to and including the 21st century.

    Overview of Paper 185: The Trial Before Pilate

    1. Pontius Pilate

    2. Jesus Appears Before Pilate

    3. The Private Examination by Pilate

    4. Jesus Before Herod

    5. Jesus Returns to Pilate

    6. Pilate’s Last Appeal

    7. Pilate’s Last Interview

    8. Pilate’s Tragic Surrender

    This group of papers [121-196] was sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek revelatory director. The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary midwayer who was onetime assigned to the superhuman watchcare of the Apostle Andrew.

    Listen to Paper 185: (click the speaker icon at the top of the page)

    Thanks for reading. Members’ thoughts, reflections, insights, observations, comments, corrections and questions about today’s OPAD presentation are invited.

    Much love, Rick/OPAD host.

    #10227
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    …Pilate was just about ready to release Jesus when Caiaphas, the high priest, approached the cowardly Roman judge….” (1996.4)185:7.5

    After thinking about it for a while, I realized that if Pilate had somehow, in a rage of righteous indignation, gathered up his gumption and said: “No! I won’t let you kill this innocent man!!”, the same thing would have happened, only with more pain and abuse.

    Caiaphas would have made good on his promise to report him to the emperor, Herod (he wanted Jesus dead too) probably would have gone against Pilate, the emperor would have then fired Pilate because of a Jewish riot, and there might even have been another mock trial. But in the end, and soon, Jesus would be put to death, and probably crucified.

    I have trouble mustering any compassion or sympathy for Caiaphas, but Pilate—I pray he made it to the other side, or like nelsong suspects, to the sleeping estate. The Midwayers said this about him in 177:

    …Judas did not seem to discern the look of disdain and even disgust that came over the face of the hardhearted and vainglorious Caiaphas…. (1925.4) 177:4.7

    Couldn’t find any references to Caiaphas after the trial. Only this in Wikipedia:

    …He (Josephus the secular historian) also states that the proconsul Vitellius deposed him (Antiquitates Judaicae 18.95-97). Josephus’ account is based on an older source in which incumbents of the high priesthood were listed chronologically.

    SOURCE/MORE

    #10247
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Welcome to The OPAD Online Study Session

    Today’s Presentation

    Paper 185 – The Trial Before Pilate

    8. Pilate’s Tragic Surrender

       Here stood the Son of God incarnate as the Son of Man. He was arrested without indictment; accused without evidence; adjudged without witnesses; punished without a verdict; and now was soon to be condemned to die by an unjust judge who confessed that he could find no fault in him. If Pilate had thought to appeal to their patriotism by referring to Jesus as the “king of the Jews,” he utterly failed. The Jews were not expecting any such a king. The declaration of the chief priests and the Sadducees, “We have no king but Caesar,” was a shock even to the unthinking populace, but it was too late now to save Jesus even had the mob dared to espouse the Master’s cause.

    (1996.6)185:8.2 Pilate was afraid of a tumult or a riot. He dared not risk having such a disturbance during Passover time in Jerusalem. He had recently received a reprimand from Caesar, and he would not risk another. The mob cheered when he ordered the release of Barabbas. Then he ordered a basin and some water, and there before the multitude he washed his hands, saying: “I am innocent of the blood of this man. You are determined that he shall die, but I have found no guilt in him. See you to it. The soldiers will lead him forth.” And then the mob cheered and replied, “His blood be on us and on our children.”

    ***

    [Each OPAD presentation is copied from The Urantia Book published by Urantia Foundation. Questions and comments related to the Paper under discussion are welcome and encouraged. In-depth questions and related topics may be studied in branch threads in the OPAD, or other subforums, as you require. Thank you for studying with us.]

    #10248
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

     

    .

    Good Day Nelsong, Bonita, Brad, Alina, Carola, Fellow Students, Forum Friends, Members and Visitors,

    What strange doings. An innocent God incarnate is unjustly tried and sentenced, a murderer is released for no good reason, and Jesus’ Jewish accusers (who resent bearing their foreign yolk) declare allegiance to Rome!

    From today’s text:

       …The declaration of the chief priests and the Sadducees, “We have no king but Caesar,” was a shock even to the unthinking populace…. (1996.5)185:8.1

    And then, Pilate brings out his wash basin in a puerile attempt to absolve himself!!

    James_Tissot_Pilate_Washes_His_Hands_400

    IMAGE SOURCE

    Barabbas’ story is well known in Christian history. From Wikipedia:

    Biblical account

    Matthew refers to Barabbas only as a “notorious prisoner”. Mark and Luke further refer to Barabbas as one involved in a stasis, a riot. Robert Eisenman states that John 18:40 refers to Barabbas as a lēstēs (“bandit”), “the word Josephus always employs when talking about Revolutionaries”.

    Three gospels state that there was a custom at Passover during which the Roman governor would release a prisoner of the crowd’s choice; Mark 15:6, Matthew 27:15, and John 18:39. Later copies of Luke contain a corresponding verse (Luke 23:17), although it is not present in the earliest manuscripts, and may be a later gloss to bring Luke into conformity.

    No custom of releasing prisoners in Jerusalem at Passover or any other time is recorded in any historical document other than the gospels.

    1024px-GiveUsBarabbas.png

    “Give us Barabbas!”, from The Bible and its Story Taught by One Thousand Picture Lessons, 1910

    IMAGE SOURCE

    All four gospels have something about this closing scene with Pilate. Although the facts are somewhat out of order, they are in general agreement.

    From Mark 15:

    15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

    16 And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.

    17 And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,

    18 And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!

    19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

    20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.

    From Matthew 27:

    23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

    24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

    25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

    26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

    27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

    28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

    29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

    30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

    31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

    From Luke 23:

    16 I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

    17 (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

    18 And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:

    19 (Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)

    20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

    21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

    22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.

    23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.

    24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.

    25 And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.

    From John 19:

    12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

    13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

    14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

    15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

    16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

    ***

    That is all of 185. Tomorrow’s reading is the introduction to Paper 186, Jesus Before The Crucifixion  The Master sends John to Mary and Martha’s home in Bethany where his family is waiting for news. He wants to see his mother once more, “ere I die”. His siblings Ruth and Jude come with her to Golgotha.

    Overview of Paper 185: The Trial Before Pilate

    1. Pontius Pilate

    2. Jesus Appears Before Pilate

    3. The Private Examination by Pilate

    4. Jesus Before Herod

    5. Jesus Returns to Pilate

    6. Pilate’s Last Appeal

    7. Pilate’s Last Interview

    8. Pilate’s Tragic Surrender

    This group of papers [121-196] was sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek revelatory director. The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary midwayer who was onetime assigned to the superhuman watchcare of the Apostle Andrew.

    Listen to Paper 185: (click the speaker icon at the top of the page)

    Thanks for reading. Members’ thoughts, reflections, insights, observations, comments, corrections and questions about today’s OPAD presentation are invited.

    Much love, Rick/OPAD host.

    #10253
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: (who resent bearing their foreign yolk)
    I think you mean yoke?

    Rick Warren wrote:  No custom of releasing prisoners in Jerusalem at Passover or any other time is recorded in any historical document other than the gospels.

    Most scholars agree with that but there are few who don’t. I don’t know how well the two scholars I mention below have been vetted, but it does offer another opinion.  They attest that there was a custom dating back to the Hasmonean times which was continued by the Romans.  When the Hasmoneans ruled there was a civil war which necessitated the imprisonment of large numbers of political dissidents.  At the time of festivals, they would pardon and release one as a goodwill gesture.  The reason is explained by Gordon Thomas in his book Trial: The Life & Inevitable Crucifixion of Jesus,  Lion Publishing, Oxford, England, 1997,  pg. 287-288:

    The custom of granting a prisoner freedom at Passover and other great Jewish festivals dated from these turbulent times when the Hasmonean dynasty ruled over Jerusalem, civil war engulfed the nation and the number of purely political prisoners dramatically increased; anyone who opposed the Hasmonean king was deemed to be politically motivated.  Hundreds, perhaps thousands of prisoners had filled the city  gaols.  To ensure a measure of peace during the Passover, the Hasmonean king regularly pardoned and released an inmate.  The gesture was underpinned by a strong commercial consideration.  The dynasty included a large number of princes who were Temple priests whose income virtually depended on the number of pilgrims who came to Jerusalem.  Granting freedom to one man was a small price to pay to encourage pilgrims from the Diaspora to accept they would not be embroiled in the civil war if they came to the city.  The custom became a recognized ritual.  When Roman occupation began, the imperial power consented to it continuing – seeing it as a shrewd way to reduce the extra emotional tension always present at times like Passover.
    In the same text Thomas explains two types of Roman amnesty ( from page 287):
    Both in Roman and Jewish law there existed specific and clear grounds for granting an amnesty on the occasion of the onset of great festivals.  The Romans had inherited the custom from the Greeks and had refined it to two kinds of pardon.  There was the indulgentia.  Only an emperor could grant this and it was normally only extended to a conquered enemy leader who had known exceptional courage in the face of defeat.  There was also the abolitio, which was an integral part of the Roman legal code; this pardon could be granted at any point before a Roman sentence was passed.  An abolitio ended proceedings and freed a prisoner before his guilt or innocence had been formally established.  The prerogative was in the hands of the chief imperial administrator in a province.  Under Roman law both Barabbas and Jesus would qualify for an abolitio: the Zealot leader had not been tried; Jesus had been adjudged not guilty of any offense.
    Also, according to the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary, Vol. 2, edited by Clinton E. Arnold:
    The practice may go back to Hasmonean times and may have been continued by the Romans after taking over Palestine.  The release probably served as a gesture of goodwill designed to lessen political antagonism and to assure people that “no one coming to Jerusalem would be caught in the midst of political strife.”  One mishnaic passage which stipulates that the Passover lamb may be slaughtered for a variety of people whose actual condition is uncertain, including “one whom they have promised to bring out of prison” (m. Pesah. 8:6), suggests that such releases were common enough to warrant legislation.  Roman law provided for two kinds of amnesty: pardoning a condemned criminal (indulgentia) and acquitting someone prior to the verdict (abolitio); in Jesus’ case, the latter would have been in view.
    #10254
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: (who resent bearing their foreign yolk)
    I think you mean yoke?

    Rick Warren wrote: No custom of releasing prisoners in Jerusalem at Passover or any other time is recorded in any historical document other than the gospels.

    Most scholars agree with that but there are few who don’t. I don’t know how well the two scholars I mention below have been vetted, but it does offer another opinion. They attest that there was a custom dating back to the Hasmonean times which was continued by the Romans. When the Hasmoneans ruled there was a civil war which necessitated the imprisonment of large numbers of political dissidents. At the time of festivals, they would pardon and release one as a goodwill gesture. The reason is explained by Gordon Thomas in his book Trial: The Life & Inevitable Crucifixion of Jesus, Lion Publishing, Oxford, England, 1997, pg. 287-288:

    The custom of granting a prisoner freedom at Passover and other great Jewish festivals dated from these turbulent times when the Hasmonean dynasty ruled over Jerusalem, civil war engulfed the nation and the number of purely political prisoners dramatically increased; anyone who opposed the Hasmonean king was deemed to be politically motivated. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of prisoners had filled the city gaols. To ensure a measure of peace during the Passover, the Hasmonean king regularly pardoned and released an inmate. The gesture was underpinned by a strong commercial consideration. The dynasty included a large number of princes who were Temple priests whose income virtually depended on the number of pilgrims who came to Jerusalem. Granting freedom to one man was a small price to pay to encourage pilgrims from the Diaspora to accept they would not be embroiled in the civil war if they came to the city. The custom became a recognized ritual. When Roman occupation began, the imperial power consented to it continuing – seeing it as a shrewd way to reduce the extra emotional tension always present at times like Passover.
    In the same text Thomas explains two types of Roman amnesty ( from page 287):
    Both in Roman and Jewish law there existed specific and clear grounds for granting an amnesty on the occasion of the onset of great festivals. The Romans had inherited the custom from the Greeks and had refined it to two kinds of pardon. There was the indulgentia. Only an emperor could grant this and it was normally only extended to a conquered enemy leader who had known exceptional courage in the face of defeat. There was also the abolitio, which was an integral part of the Roman legal code; this pardon could be granted at any point before a Roman sentence was passed. An abolitio ended proceedings and freed a prisoner before his guilt or innocence had been formally established. The prerogative was in the hands of the chief imperial administrator in a province. Under Roman law both Barabbas and Jesus would qualify for an abolitio: the Zealot leader had not been tried; Jesus had been adjudged not guilty of any offense.
    Also, according to the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary, Vol. 2, edited by Clinton E. Arnold:
    The practice may go back to Hasmonean times and may have been continued by the Romans after taking over Palestine. The release probably served as a gesture of goodwill designed to lessen political antagonism and to assure people that “no one coming to Jerusalem would be caught in the midst of political strife.” One mishnaic passage which stipulates that the Passover lamb may be slaughtered for a variety of people whose actual condition is uncertain, including “one whom they have promised to bring out of prison” (m. Pesah. 8:6), suggests that such releases were common enough to warrant legislation. Roman law provided for two kinds of amnesty: pardoning a condemned criminal (indulgentia) and acquitting someone prior to the verdict (abolitio); in Jesus’ case, the latter would have been in view.

    HA! The yoke’s on me.

    Thanks so much for the additional input Bonita, glad you found and posted it.

    Makes one wonder who/what Thomas’ and Arnold’s sources were?

    #10256
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote:  Makes one wonder who/what Thomas’ and Arnold’s sources were?
    You’ll have to scroll down to about the 53rd paragraph or do a search for the word prisoner.
    As for Thomas, I own that book and he does not footnote.  There are five pages of bibliography but no indication what text he used for his information.  Arnold, however, does footnote but I do not own the book.  I used google books and they would not let me access those pages.  I didn’t want to pay the $36 to check his sources.  I just wanted to let you know that there is a diversity of opinion on the subject.
    #10257
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

     

    You’ll have to scroll down to about the 53rd paragraph or do a search for the word prisoner.
    Hmm…prisoner is mentioned three times in two consecutive paragraphs, but they seem to be about seeing that the incarcerated one gets the paschal lamb during passover. Did I miss something?

    MISHNA: For a mourner who has lost a relative, for whom he is obliged to mourn, on the 14th (of Nissan); for a person employed in digging out of a heap of fallen ruins persons buried among them; for a prisoner who has the assurance of a release (in time to eat the paschal sacrifice); and for aged and sick persons, it is lawful to slaughter the paschal sacrifice while they are able to partake thereof a quantity at least the size of an olive. For none of these, however, may it be slaughtered on their account alone, because they may cause the paschal offering to become desecrated and useless; therefore, if any one of the persons enumerated becomes disqualified to partake of the paschal sacrifice, he need not bring a second, with the exception of a person who had dug out a dead body from beneath the ruins, since such a person is unclean to commence with.

    GEMARA: Said Rabba bar Huna in the name of R. Johanan: A prisoner on whose account alone the paschal sacrifice should not be slaughtered is one who is imprisoned in the prison of the heathens; but one who is in a prison of the Israelites, if his release for that day was promised him, may have the paschal sacrifice slaughtered for him, because the promise will surely be fulfilled, as it is written [Zephaniah iii. 13]: “The remnant of Israel shall not do injustice, nor speak lies.” R. Hisda said: “In treating of the prisons of the heathens, only such are meant is are outside of the walls of Beth Paagi; but if a prisoner is confined in a prison of the heathens inside of the walls of that place, he may have the paschal sacrifice slaughtered for him even if he be not released on the eve of Passover, as it may be brought to him while in confinement and he is allowed to partake thereof.”

    #10258
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote:  Did I miss something?
    It’s explained in the quote from Arnold:

    One mishnaic passage which stipulates that the Passover lamb may be slaughtered for a variety of people whose actual condition is uncertain, including “one whom they have promised to bring out of prison” (m. Pesah. 8:6), suggests that such releases were common enough to warrant legislation.

    As an example: in the following quote from the Pesachim it says, “even if he be not released on the eve of Passover.”  This means that being released on the eve of Passover must have happened enough times that it necessitated a Talmudic law.

    . . . but if a prisoner is confined in a prison of the heathens inside of the walls of that place, he may have the paschal sacrifice slaughtered for him even if he be not released on the eve of Passover, as it may be brought to him while in confinement and he is allowed to partake thereof.”

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