"Natural Destruction" of Sodom and Gomorrah

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  • #36146
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Yeah… but only a few make it to the ground, and fewer still are significant hits, thank heaven (or the Architects of the Master Universe) for atmosphere! It can’t be ruled out, but a significant earthquake (in the most active of seismic areas) would have tipped over most of the ovens and fires in the valley and set everything ablaze.

    True, but meteors don’t have to hit the ground. Most break apart in the atmosphere, but if they are close enough those broken fiery pieces can rain down on the earth, which is how it’s described in Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. A similar air-burst event happened in 1908 over Tunguska in Siberia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/12/04/new-science-suggests-biblical-city-of-sodom-was-smote-by-an-exploding-meteor/#14b6276b5c67

    The sulfur ‘firenada’ caused by either quake or meteor might appear as a tower of flames rising into the sky. And if a meteor did break into pieces, why weren’t other villages/areas affected? Admittedly, there could have been a small, single meteor that struck smack between the two towns. But why just those two when there is only (probably, researchers don’t pin them down) a short distance between most all of the villages there? Tiny Palestine was dotted with them. Guess we won’t know unless/until conclusive proof comes in. Curious that Melchizedek didn’t reveal the nature of the ‘natural disaster’, isn’t it? One word would have done it.

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    #36149
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    The sulfur ‘firenada’ caused by either quake or meteor might appear as a tower of flames rising into the sky. And if a meteor did break into pieces, why weren’t other villages/areas affected? Admittedly, there could have been a small, single meteor that struck smack between the two towns. But why just those two when there is only (probably, researchers don’t pin them down) a short distance between most all of the villages there? Tiny Palestine was dotted with them. Guess we won’t know unless/until conclusive proof comes in. Curious that Melchizedek didn’t reveal the nature of the ‘natural disaster’, isn’t it? One word would have done it.

    An earthquake involving a natural gas leak would probably explode with fiery pieces raining down, so I can see how that would fulfill the biblical narrative.  In regards to the proposed meteor air-burst  area over Tall el-Hammam, researches claim it wiped out those two cities and all towns in a 200 mi. radius, and the land was unusable for over 700 years. Tall el-Hammam is on the ancient trade route which is interesting because we know that Lot chose to live in Sodom because he wanted to engage in trade.  We also know that there was a king of Sodom because he joined Abraham’s army, and excavation at Tall el-Hammam has uncovered a palace.  So, there’s some compelling evidence, but no proof.

    #36156
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    …In regards to the proposed meteor air-burst area over Tall el-Hammam, researches claim it wiped out those two cities and all towns in a 200 mi. radius, and the land was unusable for over 700 years.

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    That claim pretty much rules out a meteor. There were scores, if not hundreds, of villages in that 400 mile circle.

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    #36157
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    The researchers claim they have geological evidence that the area was a wasteland, unable to support crops or livestock.  I forget which link I read that . . .  read about half a dozen on line.  Another thing to think about.  Lot moved to Zoar and lived in a cave.  Zoar was not affected by the natural disaster and was therefore habitable.  Zoar is far south of Tall el-Hammam.  Also, if the natural disaster was an earthquake, why live in a cave if you’ve just been traumatized by it?  I would think a cave is unsafe during an earthquake, but it would shelter a man from fire raining from the sky.

    #36158
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    The researchers claim they have geological evidence that the area was a wasteland, unable to support crops or livestock. I forget which link I read that . . . read about half a dozen on line. Another thing to think about. Lot moved to Zoar and lived in a cave. Zoar was not affected by the natural disaster and was therefore habitable. Zoar is far south of Tall el-Hammam. Also, if the natural disaster was an earthquake, why live in a cave if you’ve just been traumatized by it? I would think a cave is unsafe during an earthquake, but it would shelter a man from fire raining from the sky.

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    Does that mean it was a wasteland before or after or both? Can’t find any UB support for Lot’s cave-dwelling or Zoar. Did I miss it?

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    #36159
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    It was a wasteland after, and no, there’s no mention of Zoar or Lot’s cave dwelling in TUB.  I don’t recall it mentioning what happened to him.  All we know is that he had descendants.

    #36160
    André
    André
    Participant

    Hi fellows,

    Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics  and pass to something else.

    Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages.

    Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls.

    If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics.  #22055 Bonita

    Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error.

    Andre

     

    #36163
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Hi fellows, Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics and pass to something else. Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages. Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls. If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics. #22055 Bonita Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error. Andre

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    Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first :good: ;-)  

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    #36166
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    And I’ve always wondered about national defense and pacifism.  How is democratic sovereignty protected in the earlier and middle mortal epochs?

    Were Van and Amadon warrior chieftains?

    #36168
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first

    Did you mean to bring this up in the topic about the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?  I’m not sure what democracy has to do with that earthquakes or meteor strikes.  You got me confused Rick.  Even so, isn’t mediocrity a symptom of spiritual inertia?  A failure or unwillingness to progress?

    #36170
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first.

    Did you mean to bring this up in the topic about the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? I’m not sure what democracy has to do with that earthquakes or meteor strikes. You got me confused Rick. Even so, isn’t mediocrity a symptom of spiritual inertia? A failure or unwillingness to progress?

    O thank you! No, didn’t intend to, blame brainslip (or slop). My apologies for misleading the topic, Bonita, Bradly, all.

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    #36171
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Hi fellows, Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics and pass to something else. Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages. Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls. If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics. #22055 Bonita Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error. Andre

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    Ok, back to Andre’s point on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. You’re point Andre, I think, is that the spiritual lesson is the more important one, yes?

    #36196
    André
    André
    Participant

    Hi,

    Were Van and Amadon warrior chieftains?

    noun plural def: chieftains :the leader of a people or clan.   ……. yes

    I  neither connect the dots ….  about democracy …not that sometimes we might sway back and forth Rick, it is infallibly when have the courage to express ourselves.

    • 134:6.11 (1491.5) Under global government the national groups will be afforded a real opportunity to realize and enjoy the personal liberties of genuine democracy.
    • 2. The Evolution of Representative Government

    71:2.1 (801.13) Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:

    71:2.2 (801.14) 1. Glorification of mediocrity.

    71:2.3 (801.15) 2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.

    71:2.4 (801.16) 3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.

    71:2.5 (801.17) 4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.

        71:2.6 (801.18) 5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.

    71:2.7 (802.1) Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization. Education of public opinion is the only safe and true method of accelerating civilization; force is only a temporary expedient, and cultural growth will increasingly accelerate as bullets give way to ballots. Public opinion, the mores, is the basic and elemental energy in social evolution and state development, but to be of state value it must be nonviolent in expression.

    71:2.8 (802.2) The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.

    TUB view a potential danger with civilization considering mass “public opinion.”
    …. but interesting they told us even then  ….  Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing.
    • 88:3:4 (970.5) Men have also made a fetish of <mark> democracy</mark>, the exaltation and adoration of the common man’s ideas when collectively called “public opinion.” One man’s opinion, when taken by itself, is not regarded as worth much, but when many men are collectively functioning as a <mark>democracy</mark>, this same mediocre judgment is held to be the arbiter of justice and the standard of righteousness.

     

    #36198
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    That is so true André.  Last night I watched a documentary on the witch trials in England during the 1600’s.  It reminded me of the horrific danger in allowing public opinion to dominate the rule of law.  When the public is poorly educated and reacting on emotions rather than wisdom, all hell can break loose.  So many people suffered and died because of rampant idiocy.  Saturday night I watched the movie Trumbo for the first time and had the same exact feeling . . .  the rampant idiocy of public opinion destroying people’s lives and the rule of law.  It’s a real and present danger, and TUB is warning us to stay vigilant against it.

     

     

    #36203
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

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    We agree, Trumbo was a fine example of the madness that so often possesses and carries us back, even below, the instinctual behaviors of our animal ancestors, an ugly mob feeling that ignites an anger and stokes a resentment we didn’t know we had, or don’t care to acknowledge. Maybe a third of us have a goodly store of bellicosity. It still pops up into my supposed enlightened existence at 72. Sometimes I would very much like to, to just, just… Never mind! Anyway, it’s all the Nodites fault.

    Back to Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction, a wholly natural event whether by earthquake or meteor strike. But look what public opinion did with it! God got pissed because you numb-brains didn’t use a pink altar like it says in the holy writ that was found inscribed on the holy tree’s trunk by God’s own lightening, and witnessed by our venerable flawless shaman.  Humans! We, as a group, always do the right thing… last. But, we will get there. We will.

     

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