-
Posts
-
.
How do you think Melchizedek could predict the future 500 years in advance, that the Hebrews would be enslaved by Egypt, and foretell Abraham’s descendants would occupy Canaan? And does this validate predestination?…And then Melchizedek told Abraham the story of the future occupation of Canaan by his offspring after their sojourn in Egypt…. 93:6.3 (1020.6)Said he to Abraham: “Look now up to the heavens and number the stars if you are able; so numerous shall your seed be.”.Richard E Warren
Predestination??
As in no freewill?
Hmmmm….
Prediction based on circumstantial and situational trajectories? We are told a wise person with proper time unit perspective can ascertain probable outcomes…..predict trend lines and the repercussions of cultural/social/political priorities.
Many prophets gave such forecasts of the reality results of forsaking God and embracing tribalism for example. And there are visions of the future some prophets receive as personal revelation. Didn’t Jesus forsee Jerusalem’s destruction?
Interesting.
118:7.1 (1300.5) The function of Creator will and creature will, in the grand universe, operates within the limits, and in accordance with the possibilities, established by the Master Architects. This foreordination of these maximum limits does not, however, in the least abridge the sovereignty of creature will within these boundaries. Neither does ultimate foreknowledge—full allowance for all finite choice—constitute an abrogation of finite volition. A mature and farseeing human being might be able to forecast the decision of some younger associate most accurately, but this foreknowledge takes nothing away from the freedom and genuineness of the decision itself. The Gods have wisely limited the range of the action of immature will, but it is true will, nonetheless, within these defined limits.118:7.2 (1300.6) Even the supreme correlation of all past, present, and future choice does not invalidate the authenticity of such choosings. It rather indicates the foreordained trend of the cosmos and suggests foreknowledge of those volitional beings who may, or may not, elect to become contributory parts of the experiential actualization of all reality.
Predestination?? As in no freewill?
Good question. Given Machiventa’s detailed forecast, social predestination appears to be valid. Individually, no. Though we probably are fairly predictable little creatures to sagacious beings with billions of years of living experience across three million worlds.
.
Richard E Warren
93:10.3 (1024.5) Machiventa Melchizedek continued to take a great interest in the affairs of the descendants of those men who had believed in his teachings when he was in the flesh. But the progeny of Abraham through Isaac as intermarried with the Kenites were the only line which long continued to nourish any clear concept of the Salem teachings.
93:10.4 (1024.6) This same Melchizedek continued to collaborate throughout the nineteen succeeding centuries with the many prophets and seers, thus endeavoring to keep alive the truths of Salem until the fullness of the time for Michael’s appearance on earth.
What do you mean by “validate predestination”? Such a leading question infers your belief in and support of predestiny. Predetermination and fatalism both deny the reality and function of freewill. Both beliefs invalidate freewill and it’s determination of future outcomes and the importance of experiential wisdom and evolutionary progress – as if whatever’s going to happen is going to happen, no matter what choices anyone makes. A false and dangerous belief actually.
Any attempt to “validate” that which denies the importance and effects of freewill could be very confusing to new students. Freewill is absolute and inviolate. Foreknowledge or prediction is NOT predetermination.
Are you trying to validate a falsehood here and on Facebook?
Hmmmm…..
Better ways to pose the question IMO…
.
Naw, not a pre-destinationist. But the question about it provoked dozens of replies across three UB forums. This from a reader on Facebook was the best of all, imo:
“With a record of the history of thousands of societies on hundreds of worlds, the Most Highs is competent to predict without foreknowledge, the general trends of civilizations. As for a Melchizedek, capable in similar ways, and indwellt by the most advanced Thought Adjuster our world has known, putting limitations on his knowledge of the future is probably going to be in error.
Even regular individuals have some degree of insight into the future. I myself have seen limited glimpses of the future that have come to pass.
117:7.6 (1291.10) It may be that on the upper limits of the finite, where time conjoins transcended time, there is some sort of blurring and blending of sequence. It may be that the Supreme is able to forecast his universe presence onto these supertime levels and then to a limited degree anticipate future evolution by reflecting this future forecast back to the created levels as the Immanence of the Projected Incomplete. Such phenomena may be observed wherever finite makes contact with superfinite, as in the experiences of human beings who are indwelt by Thought Adjusters that are veritable predictions of man’s future universe attainments throughout all eternity.
The publication mandate communicated and read to the forum is also telling:
…[The Urantia Book] is not germane to the spectacular episodes of epochal revolution, even though it may apparently be timed to appear in the *wake* of one such revolution in human society. The book belongs to the era *immediately to follow the conclusion of the present ideological struggle.* That will be the day when men will be willing to seek truth and righteousness. When the chaos of the present confusion has passed, it will be more readily possible to formulate the cosmos of a new and improved era of human relationships. And it is for this better order of affairs on earth that the book has been made ready. … Thus will the book be in readiness when the battle for man’s liberty is finally won and the world is once more made safe for the religion of Jesus and the freedom of mankind.
I think they know what is roughly going to happen. It is by their actions and the actions of select individuals, that we get there. In the process, the world evolves, seemingly of itself, and everyone along the way still has to make the eternal choice.”
.
Richard E Warren
So then…you agree that predetermination and predestination cannot be validated? And that foreknowledge and prediction is not any form of predetermination which would be a violation of freewill and universe potential?
In the eternal fullness of time the results of God’s love and relationships will have very predictable outcomes. But in time freewill is a true wild card with endless unpredictability and uncertainties, although certainly Divine foreknowledge and trajectories of future outcomes do present certain probabilities of outcome for prediction.
There is no adventure without uncertainties and there is no experiential wisdom attainment without the adventure of uncertainty and evolutionary progress based on the outcomes of such uncertainty in time.
I am glad your provocations are finding objections and corrections. A dangerous teaching method for newer readers IMO without such objections and corrections.
Your provocative claims about Adam were troublesome and presumptive and also false. Repeating the false beliefs and conclusions of others as factual is problematic in my view.
Your choice….
A dangerous teaching method for newer readers IMO without such objections and corrections.
.If the fruits are good, that should be the indicator, imo. Below are verbatim comments that were posted in reply, and were seen by new and old readers. Of the dozens of replies, and the scores of emoticon responses, none were negative or objectionable, on the Melchizedek or the Adam and Eve questions that were posed, across three high profile forums–except one.
.“We see the world through the limited lens of a brain conscribed by time and space. On the ultimate level all of time already exists, all of space is a single point. It’s as if everything that will ever happen has already happened. And this in no way interferes with free will.”
.“I think Melchizedek could see the trends of human nature and how they manifest evolutionarily. He could see the level of self determination, arrogant leadership, and the types of resources that might raise contentions. I’m sure five hundred years isn’t so big of a time unit that he couldn’t wrap his mind around the patterns therein.”
.“Maybe we are part of a huge play being acted out on Urantia.”
.“Predestination” is just a fancy way of saying DESTINY. Today, we of Earth, are Faith-Sons of God — Sons by Faith — not yet True Sons, possessing Eternal Life and Perfection. It is our destiny to become True Sons, if we so choose it. We are “predestined” to be True Sons of God, just as a prince is “predestined” to become king if he allows and accepts it.”
.
Richard E Warren
God’s Plan – call it pre-destination if you want – is the only plan that actually works.
Perfection is a process of discovering God’s Plan which is actually the most perfection we can achieve and when we get it, we fuse with our Adjuster.
The Human Species on the planet today we ALL have the same spiritual potential for perfection because we all have the same equipment – The Spirit of Truth and Thought Adjusters….
which means the potential is there for anyone at anytime anywhere to fuse, un-noticed, by the people staring at captured electrons on gizmo screens thousands of miles away…
Need a clue…?
Divinity Attributes are “truth, beauty, and goodness” – got some?
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.