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I just found some more quotes that do a really good job of explaining the difference between quality and quantity:
111:3.6 Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality – values – is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.
133:5.7 Quantity may be identified as a fact, thus becoming a scientific uniformity. Quality, being a matter of mind interpretation, represents an estimate of values, and must, therefore, remain an experience of the individual.
Gene wrote: I’m thinking the authors are attempting to push us beyond our logical limits in a way that makes us aware that there is this limitless experience that we have available right here right now as finite creatures.Yeah, you’re right. In fact, they tell us that it is our greatest challenge:
196.3.31 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness — contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.
Contact with the divine presence within goes beyond logic, although the experience is logical, so they say. I think it’s logical because thought itself strives for unity, and something illogical would be divisive. Going beyond logic, I believe, means going beyond the material intellect into the realms of soul-thinking. The question becomes, what is soul-thinking?
My experience tells me that soul-thinking involves the perception of the elliptic symmetry of reality, the curvature of relational concepts (103:6.14). This is not a cause and effect type of thinking, what you’d call “logic”. It’s more of a tri-level relational experience with reality guided by personality presence. It’s a multi-vision approach to life (all three levels of reality recognition), plus the fourth level of personality, a “me and my partner” type of thinking, where the partner is God, the Adjuster. The personality level of presence guides all reality relational perception . . . . not sure how else to describe it. It’s a more dynamic approach to life. Definitely more exciting!
This concept of presence is so critical. I know we’ve talked many times about practicing the presence of God. Presence itself is an absolutely amazing thing. It’s so mysterious and powerful, I think it actually scares some people. I think that’s one of the reasons why Jesus kept reminding folks to “fear not,” to trust and have faith. The inner presence is so passionately influential . . . never gives up on his mission. Tremendous stuff, truly awesome! Mind blowing too.
Gene wrote: I’m thinking the authors are attempting to push us beyond our logical limits in a way that makes us aware that there is this limitless experience that we have available right here right now as finite creatures.Yeah, you’re right. In fact, they tell us that it is our greatest challenge:
196.3.31 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness — contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.
in the above quote I would have also highlighted “well-balanced an sane effort” this is far from getting on your knees and begging forgiveness for wrong doing or other stresses in life that make us look for God to help us out. However if the authors wanted to exclude any of our human characteristics like even ego they would have said something. Well balanced and sane is all inclusive I would guess.
You bring up unity as well as personality below that ties this together.
Contact with the divine presence within goes beyond logic, although the experience is logical, so they say. I think it’s logical because thought itself strives for unity, and something illogical would be divisive. Going beyond logic, I believe, means going beyond the material intellect into the realms of soul-thinking. The question becomes, what is soul-thinking? My experience tells me that soul-thinking involves the perception of the elliptic symmetry of reality, the curvature of relational concepts (103:6.14). This is not a cause and effect type of thinking, what you’d call “logic”. It’s more of a tri-level relational experience with reality guided by personality presence. It’s a multi-vision approach to life (all three levels of reality recognition), plus the fourth level of personality, a “me and my partner” type of thinking, where the partner is God, the Adjuster. The personality level of presence guides all reality relational perception . . . . not sure how else to describe it. It’s a more dynamic approach to life. Definitely more exciting! This concept of presence is so critical. I know we’ve talked many times about practicing the presence of God. Presence itself is an absolutely amazing thing. It’s so mysterious and powerful, I think it actually scares some people. I think that’s one of the reasons why Jesus kept reminding folks to “fear not,” to trust and have faith. The inner presence is so passionately influential . . . never gives up on his mission. Tremendous stuff, truly awesome! Mind blowing too.
soul thinking is a cool new idea to me and one that I could imagine requiring sanity and sincerity and a personality to unify and presence to complete. Maybe you are describing basic function of Gods personality circuit, or a worship technique. Very fascinating indeed.
thx for your response.
Gene wrote:this is far from getting on your knees and begging forgiveness for wrong doing or other stresses in life that make us look for God to help us out.Yes and no. I see it as a “get on your knees” attitude of mind, both humble and trusting. And I also think it definitely requires asking for help, a form of seeking and striving for God’s will. Anyone who thinks they can find perfection without help is deluded. I, for one, certainly need a ton of help, especially with the elliptic symmetry thing. All three levels of reality need to be coordinated. That means everyday issues with material reality, moral reality and spiritual reality. I call it praying without ceasing.
The inner presence I’m talking about is a three-fold presence. Don’t forget that the soul level of mind is the Holy Spirit, a presence, who is combined with the Spirit of Truth, another presence. Then of course, there’s the third and most important presence, the Adjuster. They work as one, indistinguishable from the other.
Of course there is a difference between prayer and worship. There are several pages in TUB explaining the difference. But soul-level thinking is not worship, it’s prayer. It’s a function of mind that desires presence, strives in the company of presence, acts guided by presence, and grows in the direction of presence.
Gene wrote: Maybe you are describing basic function of Gods personality circuit, or a worship technique.
No, I’m describing cooperation with mind ministry and practicing the presence of God. Don’t forget that mind ministry is a living presence itself. Mind ministry, if not inhibited or actively obstructed, naturally moves toward spirit; it’s the mediator. I find that asking for help in this is very useful. What I mean is, asking to be alerted to anything I’m doing or thinking that inhibits or obstructs the natural function of mind ministry.
0:6.8 Mind is a phenomenon connoting the presence-activity of living ministry in addition to varied energy systems; and this is true on all levels of intelligence. In personality, mind ever intervenes between spirit and matter; therefore is the universe illuminated by three kinds of light: material light, intellectual insight, and spirit luminosity.
3:1.11 The fact of God’s presence in creature minds is determined by whether or not they are indwelt by Father fragments, such as the Mystery Monitors, but his effective presence is determined by the degree of co-operation accorded these indwelling Adjusters by the minds of their sojourn.
3:1.12 The fluctuations of the Father’s presence are not due to the changeableness of God. The Father does not retire in seclusion because he has been slighted; his affections are not alienated because of the creature’s wrongdoing. Rather, having been endowed with the power of choice (concerning Himself), his children, in the exercise of that choice, directly determine the degree and limitations of the Father’s divine influence in their own hearts and souls. The Father has freely bestowed himself upon us without limit and without favor. He is no respecter of persons, planets, systems, or universes. In the sectors of time he confers differential honor only on the Paradise personalities of God the Sevenfold, the co-ordinate creators of the finite universes.
13:4.5 The determiner of the differential of spiritual presence exists in your own hearts and minds and consists in the manner of your own choosing, in the decisions of your minds, and in the determination of your own wills. This differential is inherent in the freewill reactions of intelligent personal beings, beings whom the Universal Father has ordained shall exercise this liberty of choosing. And the Deities are ever true to the ebb and flow of their spirits in meeting and satisfying the conditions and demands of this differential of creature choice, now bestowing more of their presence in response to a sincere desire for the same and again withdrawing themselves from the scene as their creatures decide adversely in the exercise of their divinely bestowed freedom of choice. And thus does the spirit of divinity become humbly obedient to the choosing of the creatures of the realms.
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