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Rick Warren wrote: Altho I wonder about sorrow.
Well, if once we get to the mansion worlds we’re no higher than angels, then we’d probably have something akin to their emotions, and angels do have disappointment. I’m guessing that would include some level of sorrow as well. Just a guess.
48:6.36 Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.
Rick Warren wrote: Altho I wonder about sorrow.Well, if once we get to the mansion worlds we’re no higher than angels, then we’d probably have something akin to their emotions, and angels do have disappointment. I’m guessing that would include some level of sorrow as well. Just a guess.
48:6.36 Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.
Thanks Bonita. The panoply of emotions available to us is astonishingly rich and diverse, isn’t it?! And they probably increase with each life. But I can think of no way to relate sorrow to beauty, unless sorrow is seen as the fire that tempers us for fusion and eternity. If that is allowed, then all things incline to being fuel for the triune flame of Beauty, Goodness and Truth.
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Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: But I can think of no way to relate sorrow to beauty, unless sorrow is seen as the fire that tempers us for fusion and eternity.I think sorrow and disappointment are necessities to growth and growth is beauty in progress, isn’t it? If supreme beauty is the ” . . . drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature,” (56:10.3) then the drama of sorrow must be part of it. That is, if it can be unified somehow with the will of God. Sorrow and suffering are related, and we know that God experiences our sorrow along with us as part of that drama of unification. I don’t know if it’s a fire or an incentive to seek resolution and balance, but I do know that none of us escape it. We know that, “Health, sanity, and happiness are integrations of truth, beauty, and goodness as they are blended in human experience.” I think in order to have happiness, you have to experience the opposite, then integrate it into reality in a beautiful way. They do say that beauty always triumphs.
p51:13 9. Is pleasure–the satisfaction of happiness–desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.
I think sorrow and disappointment are necessities to growth and growth is beauty in progress, isn’t it?
Apparently. This echoes the teaching about goodness. To be known and appreciated goodness needs the potential and choice of evil. How many times did the authors mention that contrast?
…The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations…. (52.2) 3:5.16
…The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness…. (58.4) 4:3.6
…Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space…. (58.4) 4:3.6
…Goodness is found in the recognition of the positive truth-values of the spiritual level, which must, in human experience, be contrasted with the negative counterpart–the shadows of potential evil…. (1458.4) 132:2.7
And there are others.
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Richard E Warren
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Another aspect of beauty, one that hasn’t been cited in this thread, is the bias around it. Although Mara did touch on it, alluding to vanity. Let’s be totally honest about this, people who are considered attractive get the best jobs, the handsomest mates, a better education, better housing, and a free pass for so many of life’s hurdles, minor and major. They get the highest pay, most attention, and are given the most slack.
It is not a coincidence that physically attractive people are actors, TV news presenters, and salesmen. Humans consciously and unconsciously trust and usually want to be close to a beautiful individual, often regardless of their inner spiritual condition. Especially is this true of attractive young women.
Is this beauty bias a good thing? Why is it that people discriminate in favor of beauty in the first place? Is there a way to see past a beautiful facade and discern whether it is skin deep or soul deep? And if Urantia had not gone off the rails into rebellion and we were in the first stage of Light and Life, would all humans be beautiful?
Googling “The Beauty Bias” brings over 7 million hits! It’s real.
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+beauty+bias&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
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Richard E Warren
I think people have a natural inclination for beauty, although some resist it. In regards to being attracted to beautiful people and rewarding them because they’re beautiful, perhaps that has something to do with the inner drive toward perfection on a physical level, not to mention race improvement. People are drawn to mate with not only good stock, but beautiful and true stock as well.
It is said that the outer body often reflects the nature of one’s personality. Although that isn’t foolproof on the material level of reality, on morontia levels it is. Perhaps we naturally long for this and are attracted to it, at least physically and adjutant mindally (new word).
112:6.3 To a certain extent, the appearance of the material body-form is responsive to the character of the personality identity; the physical body does, to a limited degree, reflect something of the inherent nature of the personality. Still more so does the morontia form. In the physical life, mortals may be outwardly beautiful though inwardly unlovely; in the morontia life, and increasingly on its higher levels, the personality form will vary directly in accordance with the nature of the inner person. On the spiritual level, outward form and inner nature begin to approximate complete identification, which grows more and more perfect on higher and higher spirit levels.
I think people have a natural inclination for beauty, although some resist it. In regards to being attracted to beautiful people and rewarding them because they’re beautiful, perhaps that has something to do with the inner drive toward perfection on a physical level, not to mention race improvement. People are drawn to mate with not only good stock, but beautiful and true stock as well. It is said that the outer body often reflects the nature of one’s personality. Although that isn’t foolproof on the material level of reality, on morontia levels it is. Perhaps we naturally long for this and are attracted to it, at least physically and adjutant mindally (new word).
112:6.3 To a certain extent, the appearance of the material body-form is responsive to the character of the personality identity; the physical body does, to a limited degree, reflect something of the inherent nature of the personality. Still more so does the morontia form. In the physical life, mortals may be outwardly beautiful though inwardly unlovely; in the morontia life, and increasingly on its higher levels, the personality form will vary directly in accordance with the nature of the inner person. On the spiritual level, outward form and inner nature begin to approximate complete identification, which grows more and more perfect on higher and higher spirit levels.
Good points, Bonita. And do you think mindally is an adjective or an adverb
Wikipedia has a page on Beauty. And it alludes to Beauty’s opposite, an interesting and informative juxtaposition, but no mention of the ugliness of evil and sin.
Ugliness is a property of a person or thing that is unpleasant to look upon and results in a highly unfavorable evaluation. To be ugly is to be aesthetically unattractive, repulsive, or offensive.
People who appear ugly to others suffer well-documented discrimination, earning 10 to 15 percent less per year than similar workers, and are less likely to be hired for almost any job, but lack legal recourse to fight discrimination.
For some people, ugliness is a central aspect of their persona. Jean-Paul Sartre had a lazy eye and a bloated, asymmetrical face, and he attributed many of his philosophical ideas to his lifelong struggle to come to terms with his self-described ugliness. Socrates also used his ugliness as a philosophical touch point, concluding that philosophy can save us from our outward ugliness. Famous in his own time for his perceived ugliness, Abraham Lincoln was described by a contemporary: “to say that he is ugly is nothing; to add that his figure is grotesque, is to convey no adequate impression.” However, his looks proved to be an asset in his personal and political relationships, as his law partner William Herndon wrote, “He was not a pretty man by any means, nor was he an ugly one; he was a homely man, careless of his looks, plain-looking and plain-acting. He had no pomp, display, or dignity, so-called. He appeared simple in his carriage and bearing. He was a sad-looking man; his melancholy dripped from him as he walked. His apparent gloom impressed his friends, and created sympathy for him—one means of his great success.”
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty#Ugliness
Further down the page there’s this reflection of the 20th century idea and ideal of Beauty, and good news on Beauty’s current status:
The 20th century saw an increasing rejection of beauty by artists and philosophers alike, culminating in postmodernism‘s anti-aesthetics. This is despite beauty being a central concern of one of postmodernism’s main influences, Friedrich Nietzsche, who argued that the Will to Power was the Will to Beauty.
In the aftermath of postmodernism’s rejection of beauty, thinkers have returned to beauty as an important value. American analytic philosopher Guy Sircello proposed his New Theory of Beauty as an effort to reaffirm the status of beauty as an important philosophical concept. Fatima Lodhi, a young diversity and anti-colorism advocate, claims that “Beauty comes in all shapes, shades and sizes”. Elaine Scarry also argues that beauty is related to justice.
Justice! Hmmm…another aspect to Beauty?? I can see how Truth is related to justice, and poet John Keats connected Beauty to Truth…soo maybe Beauty is first cousin to justice!
- “Beauty is truth, truth beauty, —that is all.” (Ode to a Grecian Urn)
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Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: Justice! Hmmm…another aspect to Beauty??Well, there is this quote:
44:7.2 Beauty, rhythm, and harmony are intellectually associated and spiritually akin. Truth, fact, and relationship are intellectually inseparable and associated with the philosophic concepts of beauty. Goodness, righteousness, and justice are philosophically interrelated and spiritually bound up together with living truth and divine beauty.
There’s something about true justice that makes it idealistically beautiful, since truth, beauty and goodness always triumph over evil. Combined with mercy, justice is a kind of fairness. Isn’t fairness a fruit of the spirit? Aren’t spiritual fruits beautiful? It’s all good.
Beauty is definitely associated or united in the way one sees another where the face can reveal several sides to who one may perceive another. I have noticed that most individuals have two different sides to their face depending on the angle or aspect, like when one says this is my good side, when posing for a picture.
The following is an example of what might or could be considered as two sides to a face.
The oldest known icon of Christ Pantocrator – Saint Catherine’s Monastery.
The two different facial expressions on either side emphasize Christ’s
dual nature as both divine and human.The following is a Photoshop rendition of both sides.
Photoshop composites of the two sides of the face.When one looks at the images where the different sides are halved and mirror imaged, one could say that they can be perceived differently where one could be more appealing to some then another. Which side appeals to you more?
Source material from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union
Rick Warren wrote: Justice! Hmmm…another aspect to Beauty??Well, there is this quote:
44:7.2 Beauty, rhythm, and harmony are intellectually associated and spiritually akin. Truth, fact, and relationship are intellectually inseparable and associated with the philosophic concepts of beauty. Goodness, righteousness, and justice are philosophically interrelated and spiritually bound up together with living truth and divine beauty.
There’s something about true justice that makes it idealistically beautiful, since truth, beauty and goodness always triumph over evil. Combined with mercy, justice is a kind of fairness. Isn’t fairness a fruit of the spirit? Aren’t spiritual fruits beautiful? It’s all good.
Wouldst that it were! Only on Paradise environs. But yes, we agree, there is something intrinsically beautiful about seeing fairness unfold/prevail. It’s simply righteous. Maybe because God is inherently fair, kind, and beautiful to the nth degree. Fairness is a sort of empathetic embrace of God’s core values, TB&G. Justice seems to be the flip side of the coin, albeit somewhat less personal and intimate.
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Richard E Warren
Beauty is definitely associated or united in the way one sees another where the face can reveal several sides to who one may perceive another. I have noticed that most individuals have two different sides to their face depending on the angle or aspect, like when one says this is my good side, when posing for a picture. The following is an example of what might or could be considered as two sides to a face.
The oldest known icon of Christ Pantocrator – Saint Catherine’s Monastery. The two different facial expressions on either side emphasize Christ’s dual nature as both divine and human.
The following is a Photoshop rendition of both sides.
Photoshop composites of the two sides of the face.When one looks at the images where the different sides are halved and mirror imaged, one could say that they can be perceived differently where one could be more appealing to some then another. Which side appeals to you more? Source material from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union
Hmm….neither. Medieval art is so dismal, distant, and foreboding, isn’t it?! But the artist did grasp Jeusus’ dual nature–a beautiful concept in itself, therefore a good use of art, notwithstanding its dourness.
Contemporary art can be worse. But art of any age is both great and mediocre, eh? The UB authors declare art’s highest reach is to reveal something worthy. Now I use that standard, recently applying it to an artist whose work has always intrigued me. Jackson Pollock. The Guggenheim is featuring his works now. Does this image “reveal” anything to you?
Image Source: https://www.tes.com/lessons/HWxCSS_6gB8prQ/jackson-pollock
What about this one? Is it beautiful and/or revealing of something divine, cosmic, or celestial?
Image source: https://www.dma.org/art/exhibitions/jackson-pollock-blind-spots
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Richard E Warren
Is something beautiful if only one person sees it and nobody else does? Is beauty really in the eye of the beholder? Does it take an eye to appreciate beauty? Jesus dual nature is discoverable by a blind person.
beauty is necessary because it is a reality, it’s discovering or maybe better said appreciating one aspect of Gods creation. It’s ours to discover.
If we miss it maybe it’s a problem with more than our eye.
Is something beautiful if only one person sees it and nobody else does? Is beauty really in the eye of the beholder? Does it take an eye to appreciate beauty? Jesus dual nature is discoverable by a blind person. beauty is necessary because it is a reality, it’s discovering or maybe better said appreciating one aspect of Gods creation. It’s ours to discover. If we miss it maybe it’s a problem with more than our eye.
Maybe. And time/experience is a big factor in beauty recognition and seeking. Fifty years ago I probably would not have taken the time to look at the extraordinary beauty so well depicted in this video short. Today I was moved to tears of inspiration, gratitude and humility.
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Richard E Warren
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched – they must be felt with the heart. Helen Keller
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched – they must be felt with the heart. Helen Keller
Yes, recognised for their value by the heart and the soul.
111:3.6 (1219.5) Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality — values — is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.
Something that Bonita said about “cosmology being the pursuit of beauty” way back on page 2 sparked my recognition. (Alright, I have only just caught up.)
Bonita wrote:
So . . . if cosmology is the pursuit of beauty, then would cosmological thinking be the pursuit of beautiful thinking? Curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity are all part of beautiful thinking. I’ve spent a lot of time studying spiritualized thinking which is thinking with the soul. But beautiful thinking is probably a material mind level of thought that opens the mind to the soul, a way to train the mind to keep the gateway open.
I agree, that “Curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity are all part of beautiful thinking.”
To my mind cosmology concerns the inter-relationship of material reality. I think cosmology is the recognition that matter is over-controlled in concert and balance with other matter. It is also the process whereby space and energy coalesce into form. From the star systems and space bodies, to the wind and weather patterns on Urantia, to the diversity and interplay of all creatures and plants, landscapes and seasonal changes. All divinely created matter is beautiful. Have you ever wondered at the beauty of those time-delay photos — a seedling growing or a flower opening and closing? Or how colourful gaseous Nebula are?
Everything in balance, rhythm and harmony — an orchestrated graceful and divinely beautiful dance. At the universe level this dance is illustrated in Papers 12-15. The seven superuniverses revolve around Paradise and Havona in a counter-clockwise procession, while the ten major sectors revolve in a clockwise procession about the Uversa headquarters of Orvonton. The rotation changes direction again, with the one hundred minor sectors revolving, counter-clockwise, about their major sector. This unthinkably huge procession reminds me of brightly coloured dancers who hold hands forming several concentric circles dancing within each other — circles within circles. Each dancing the opposite direction.
I believe that cosmology informs our understanding of how all levels of material reality are interdependent. This is a valuable lesson about our own interdependence as a people. Beauty is the God-conscious “drama” that plays out in our material-mind. It is “the unification of contrasts”.
56:10.2 (646.3)Throughout this glorious age the chief pursuit of the ever-advancing mortals is the quest for a better understanding and a fuller realization of the comprehensible elements of Deity — truth, beauty, and goodness. This represents man’s effort to discern God in mind, matter, and spirit. And as the mortal pursues this quest, he finds himself increasingly absorbed in the experiential study of philosophy, cosmology, and divinity.
56:10.3 (646.4) Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature.
12:4.15 (134.4) But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes, of outer space, in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses, seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
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