Is Beauty Really Necessary? What Is Beauty? Who Says What Is Beautiful?

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  • #19617
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Abstraction admonitions:

    …Philosophers commit their gravest error when they are misled into the fallacy of abstraction, the practice of focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then of pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth…. (42.6) 2:7.5

    …Your science is engaged in the agelong contest between truth and error while it fights for deliverance from the bondage of abstraction, the slavery of mathematics, and the relative blindness of mechanistic materialism…. (141.6) 12:9.5

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    Richard E Warren

    #19634
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    Well at least our science is fighting for deliverance from abstraction bondage – at least at the time of this revelation.

    the implication being that science has a goal that transcends itself?

    #19640
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Well at least our science is fighting for deliverance from abstraction bondage – at least at the time of this revelation. the implication being that science has a goal that transcends itself?

    We can only hope, Gene. A true, beautiful, good science should never be satisfied with its status until it attains Absolute Truth, that place where science, philosophy and religion meet and agree on God.

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    Richard E Warren

    #19641
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    This Wikipedia article is germane here. It well reflects our current collective thinking on beauty. It starts off:

    Beauty is a characteristic of a person, animal, place, object, or idea that provides a perceptual experience of pleasure or satisfaction. Beauty is studied as part of aesthetics, sociology, social psychology, and culture. An “ideal beauty” is an entity which is admired, or possesses features widely attributed to beauty in a particular culture, for perfection.

    The experience of “beauty” often involves an interpretation of some entity as being in balance and harmony with nature, which may lead to feelings of attraction and emotional well-being. Because this can be a subjective experience, it is often said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

    There is evidence that perceptions of beauty are evolutionarily determined, that things, aspects of people and landscapes considered beautiful are typically found in situations likely to give enhanced survival of the perceiving human’s genes.

    The “evidence” they cite is in these:

    The Oxford Handbook for Aesthetics

    Denis Dutton: A Darwinian theory of beauty | Video on TED.com

    Anyone here read the Oxford book?

    The TED video is 15 minutes of beauty dissection by a science oriented mind, without the least mention or question of the source of Beauty. The presenter does make a good case for the utility of beauty in evolution (mate selection), but nothing of Beauty’s power to arouse spiritual interest, to induce curiosity about the quintessential intangibles of life, to aid in effecting the worshipful state. Rather clinical and narrow I thought.

     

     

    Rayonnant rose window in Notre Dame de Paris. In Gothic architecture, light was considered the most beautiful revelation of God.

    Image and Article Source

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    Richard E Warren

    #19664
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    .

    Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    ANCIENT GREEK

    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

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    Richard E Warren

    #19665
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    .i
    Is math beautiful to you?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek

    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

     

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    Richard E Warren

    #19666
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    .
    Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek
    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #19667
    Avatar
    tas
    Participant

    . Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion. Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

    Yet more on that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty

    The mathematician Paul Erdős was a real character and one of the greatest mathematicians since Euler, he had this take on it:

    “Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős spoke of an imaginary book, in which God has written down all the most beautiful mathematical proofs. When Erdős wanted to express particular appreciation of a proof, he would exclaim “This one’s from The Book!””

    This even inspired an actual book to be compiled with candidate proofs from “The Book”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofs_from_THE_BOOK

    #19678
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant
     .
    The mathematician Paul Erdős was a real character and one of the greatest mathematicians since Euler, he had this take on it: “Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős spoke of an imaginary book, in which God has written down all the most beautiful mathematical proofs. When Erdős wanted to express particular appreciation of a proof, he would exclaim “This one’s from The Book!””
     .
    This even inspired an actual book to be compiled with candidate proofs from “The Book”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofs_from_THE_BOOK
     .

    Fascinating. Thanks tas! Here’s more from your link on the beauty of math, from philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, writer, social critic and political activist Bertrand Russel:

    Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty — a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature, without the gorgeous trappings of painting or music, yet sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show. The true spirit of delight, the exaltation, the sense of being more than Man, which is the touchstone of the highest excellence, is to be found in mathematics as surely as poetry.

    More on “The Book” and Erdos:

    He had his own idiosyncratic vocabulary: Although an agnostic atheist, he spoke of “The Book”, a visualization of a book in which God had written down the best and most elegant proofs for mathematical theorems. Lecturing in 1985 he said, “You don’t have to believe in God, but you should believe in The Book.” He himself doubted the existence of God, whom he called the “Supreme Fascist” (SF). He accused SF of hiding his socks and Hungarian passports, and of keeping the most elegant mathematical proofs to himself. When he saw a particularly beautiful mathematical proof he would exclaim, “This one’s from The Book!” This later inspired a book titled Proofs from the Book.

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    Interesting that both Erdos and Russell were not believers in the Source of Beauty. Cold and austere indeed.

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    Richard E Warren

    #19679
    Avatar
    tas
    Participant

    . Interesting that both Erdos and Russell were not believers in the Source of Beauty. Cold and austere indeed.

    .

    Ha, well, I wouldn’t pin “cold and austere” on him…  Here he is introducing himself, Paul Erdös PGOM LD AD LD CD:

    #19682
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    .

    Ha, well, I wouldn’t pin “cold and austere” on him… Here he is introducing himself, Paul Erdös PGOM LD AD LD CD:

    Ok, not cold, tas. Austere we might have to disagree on :)  To me romancing numbers is like kissing a fencepost, unaffectionate and there is the danger of splinters. But I can appreciate that some do enjoy a jaunt in the land of math. And mathematics can reveal certain aspects of beauty, logic certainly. This video combines art and logic, it asks and answers the question: Is the world a work of art?

    https://youtu.be/sPbwki0qpQ4

    [PS: Skip to minute 44 for the connection to beauty.]

     

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    Richard E Warren

    #19683
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    .

    Have you thought much about the actual experience of Beauty? Don’t you first have to separate types of beauty, at least between the object and the feeling? Is Beauty a feeling, an experience, both maybe? And why should Beauty be a universe value? God must value Beauty or it would not be central to God’s being.

    So, apparently we have been endowed with this ability to both perceive and create Beauty, the so called aesthetic sense. Here’s a bit on the nature of this little talked about sensibility:

    Aesthetics, or the philosophy of art, is the study of beauty and taste. It is about interpreting works of art and art movements or theories. The term aesthetic is also used to designate a particular style, for example the “chess aesthetics”, or the “Japanese aesthetic”.

    As well as being applied to art, aesthetics can also be applied to cultural objects. Aesthetic design principles include ornamentation, edge delineation, texture, flow, solemnity, symmetry, color, granularity, the interaction of sunlight and shadows, transcendence, and harmony.

    The word aesthetic is also an adjective and adverb relating to cosmetology and medicine, as in aesthetic medicine.

    Also spelt æsthetics and esthetics, the word is derived from the Ancient Greek αἰσθητικός (aisthetikos, meaning “esthetic, sensitive, sentient, pertaining to sense perception”), which in turn was derived from αἰσθάνομαι (aisthanomai, meaning “I perceive, feel, sense”).

    Source/more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics

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    Richard E Warren

    #19686
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    I’ll take a dip into your beauty topic Rick!

    If atheism (materialism) is defined as the maximation of ugliness, then I would say that the sliding scale of ugliness-beauty is a mental construct (that I just constructed!) where on one end God-does-not-exist, and at the other end exists God-in-his-glory.  When I think of materialism, vanity comes to mind.   I’m not suggesting vanity is to be abhorred.  Not at all.  After all my professional work is of a type of a very lucrative vanity industry.  People, men and women, do care about how their hair looks and spend a lot of money getting it right.  There is a place for vanity in our emotional life.

    68:2:10  If vanity be enlarged to cover pride, ambition, and honor, then we may discern not only how these propensities contribute to the formation of human associations, but how they also hold men together, since such emotions are futile without an audience to parade before. Soon vanity associated with itself other emotions and impulses which required a social arena wherein they might exhibit and gratify themselves. This group of emotions gave origin to the early beginnings of all art, ceremonial, and all forms of sportive games and contests.
    .
    Everyone wants to be beautiful, pretty, or handsome. (Well, maybe not everyone.)  Everyone wants the prefect body, according to one’s internal standards of perfection, in conjunction with one’s social and cultural standards.  But where do those internal perfection standards come from?  Any human standard of perfection fails, in my opinion, if it does not put in first place the unutterable aspirations of the human soul to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect. The maximation of ugliness is atheism, because God is denied by the mind of the individual who thinks God does not exist and who professes atheism.
    .
    A sliding scale of finite-cosmic beauty, might be expressed as: “Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. . . ”  man finding God and God finding man, also known as the apex of cosmic art.
    .
    56:10:3  Philosophy you somewhat grasp, and divinity you comprehend in worship, social service, and personal spiritual experience, but the pursuit of beauty–cosmology–you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. Man finding God and God finding man–the creature becoming perfect as is the Creator–that is the supernal achievement of the supremely beautiful, the attainment of the apex of cosmic art.
    #19698
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    I’ll take a dip into your beauty topic Rick!

    If atheism (materialism) is defined as the maximation of ugliness, then I would say that the sliding scale of ugliness-beauty is a mental construct (that I just constructed!) where on one end God-does-not-exist, and at the other end exists God-in-his-glory. When I think of materialism, vanity comes to mind. I’m not suggesting vanity is to be abhorred. Not at all. After all my professional work is of a type of a very lucrative vanity industry. People, men and women, do care about how their hair looks and spend a lot of money getting it right. There is a place for vanity in our emotional life.

    68:2:10 If vanity be enlarged to cover pride, ambition, and honor, then we may discern not only how these propensities contribute to the formation of human associations, but how they also hold men together, since such emotions are futile without an audience to parade before. Soon vanity associated with itself other emotions and impulses which required a social arena wherein they might exhibit and gratify themselves. This group of emotions gave origin to the early beginnings of all art, ceremonial, and all forms of sportive games and contests.
    .
    Everyone wants to be beautiful, pretty, or handsome. (Well, maybe not everyone.) Everyone wants the prefect body, according to one’s internal standards of perfection, in conjunction with one’s social and cultural standards. But where do those internal perfection standards come from? Any human standard of perfection fails, in my opinion, if it does not put in first place the unutterable aspirations of the human soul to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect. The maximation of ugliness is atheism, because God is denied by the mind of the individual who thinks God does not exist and who professes atheism.
    .
    A sliding scale of finite-cosmic beauty, might be expressed as: “Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. . . ” man finding God and God finding man, also known as the apex of cosmic art.
    .
    56:10:3 Philosophy you somewhat grasp, and divinity you comprehend in worship, social service, and personal spiritual experience, but the pursuit of beauty–cosmology–you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. Man finding God and God finding man–the creature becoming perfect as is the Creator–that is the supernal achievement of the supremely beautiful, the attainment of the apex of cosmic art.

    Thanks much for chiming in Mara,

    Good thoughts all.

    Since human physical beauty is so fleeting, I more and more disregard it, looking instead to the inner light shining out of the eyes, mind and heart. But you make an excellent and germane point about the value and history of vanity.

    In the human mind, the word beauty almost always evokes the human face. Especially the female face. For proof just google “beauty images”, you’ll see pages and pages of airbrushed female faces, virtually no male faces.

    The words “beautiful images” when googled bring far different photos, diverse and natural mostly, seldom does a male or female face appear. That’s a good sign.

    But, not until the Urantia Book do we find beauty permanently associated with the splendor of the cosmos. The stupendous living mechanism of the universe, integrated as it is on physical, intellectual and spiritual levels, is moving along to the rhythm and beat of The Creator. The magnificence of the Universe is ever changing, as The Great Orchestrator and Architect of the Cosmos rings out the harmonies of a compelling love that keeps the great family of Daughters and Sons busy building something else altogether Beautiful, the Supreme Being. How beautiful will the Supreme be, constructed of all the divine values that have been wrought and accumulated from time and space, lowly creatures’ values that continually drift into God’s project, our project, building an Experiential God whose substance is Truth, Beauty and Goodness, according to this:

    …God the Supreme is truth, beauty, and goodness, for these concepts of divinity represent finite maximums of ideational experience. The eternal sources of these triune qualities of divinity are on superfinite levels, but a creature could only conceive of such sources as supertruth, superbeauty, and supergoodness…. (1279:5) 117:1.7

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    Hmmm…Superbeauty!

    Richard E Warren

    #19703
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Speaking of “beautiful” bodies. The Hindus teach this:

    “…When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death.” (1449.2) 131:4.7

    Now, that’s a beautiful vision. Altho I wonder about sorrow. What if on Mansonia one you love deeply, a child or a parent say, outright rejects God’s lavishly beautiful offer of eternal life and service as God’s offspring?

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    Richard E Warren

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