Guilt

[Mara]

MidiChlorian wrote:  . . . the key word I used, is “executioner”. . . . [25:3:5]

Yes, I noticed your reference to executioner in your first post.  The acts of those who have this assignment are part of the universe justice system.  They execute decisions of the courts, the mandates  of  the conciliating commissions.  They were designed to function as executioners.  You can read more about them here:  37:8:6

[Bonita]

Guilt is a function of conscience; guilt is defined as consciousness of interrupted spiritual communion, or consciousness of  lowering of one’s moral ideals (103:4.3).  Conscience is a function of mind which delineates between right and wrong on a human level.  Guilt is the feeling that the conscience provides to indicate to us that something wrong has been thought or done. Guilt is a result of a failure in resolving issues of right and wrong.  The two go together: conscience and guilt.  A person without guilt is a person without a conscience, and a person without a conscience is called a psychopath.

I think it’s important to stress that guilt is not synonymous with punishment.  Guilt is simply a feeling of wrongdoing or wrong thinking, both of which interrupt spiritual communion and fall short of one’s moral ideals.  It’s a feeling of moving in the wrong direction. Responding to that feeling and choosing to correct it is all it takes to erase guilt for that particular episode.  But to erase all guilt forever is just not possible unless one is perfect in every way and never makes any mistakes in thought, word or deed.  I don’t know any human being alive that fits into that category.

When Jesus said the following:

156:2.7 “My disciples must not only cease to do evil but learn to do well; you must not only be cleansed from all conscious sin, but you must refuse to harbor even the feelings of guilt. If you confess your sins, they are forgiven; therefore must you maintain a conscience void of offense.”

He instructed us not to harbor feelings of guilt.  He did not say to never, ever have guilt. To harbor guilt means to hold onto one’s mistakes secretly, to bring the guilt ship into port and shelter the negativity in your mind so it eats away at you as a form of punishment.  He is saying that he does not want us to become overly self-critical but to forgive ourselves; or rather, allow God to forgive us and get on with it. The important part of the quote is to maintain a “conscience void of offense,” which means to recognize and correct wrong doing and wrong thinking in order to maintain uninterrupted spiritual communion, knowing that God only requires a resumption of loyal relations with him without punishment by him or yourself.

[Mara]

Bonita wrote:  He is saying that he does not want us to become overly self-critical but to forgive ourselves; or rather, allow God to forgive us and get on with it.

An oops or two is being human.  I don’t dwell on it or feel guilty.  I get on with it and rapidly put it behind me.

[132:2:6]

But what about the issue of feeling unworthy?  The revelators mention in this citation the harmful brooding over feelings of unworthiness or sinfulness – a morbid sense of sin, unjustified convictions of guilt, real or fancied – the primitive bondage of fear.   91:1:6

Underneath guilt might be unrecognized fear.  Fear of displeasing God, fear of wrongdoing in the eyes of one’s culture and one’s family, and so on.  Fear of the priests.  Fear of punishment.  Fear of getting caught.  Fear of being exposed to one’s fellows.  I’m talking about unreasoned fear.

48:7:4   2. Few persons live up to the faith which they really have. Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul.

[Bonita]

Mara wrote:  Underneath guilt might be unrecognized fear.  Fear of displeasing God, fear of wrongdoing in the eyes of one’s culture and one’s family, and so on.  Fear of the priests.  Fear of punishment.  Fear of getting caught.  Fear of being exposed to one’s fellows.  I’m talking about unreasoned fear.

I always taught my kids that there is a healthy variety of fear.  It’s called vigilance.  A blissful life devoid of danger does not induce the growth of character or wisdom.  One must become aware of the pitfalls of living and learn how to either avoid them or deal with them when they come.  They do say there are no accidents in life, so a healthy amount of fear resulting in attentiveness can make one wise as a serpent.  It’s also a form of empowerment, a preparedness which gives you the confidence to tackle life’s vicissitudes.

But this is not the kind of fear Jesus came to relieve us of.  Jesus came to free us from fear of punishment, the fear of a wrathful God.  He did not come to free us from the fear of punishment or wrath coming from other humans or from a hazardous environment.  That would be peace on earth, and he did not come to bring that.  He brought the good news of sonship, and as we all learn to embrace that fact, so will come an eventual peace on earth.

The dictionary definition of the word guilt says nothing at all about punishment.  Guilt is defined as a feeling of having done wrong or failure to uphold an obligation. Guilt is a feeling.  We humans attach different meanings to our feelings, mostly based on what we have been taught.  For millennia now, humans have attached the concept of punishment to the feeling of guilt; but, Jesus came to teach us that this attachment is a false one when it comes to God because we are his sons.  [Don’t forget the notion of original sin has been deeply embedded within the human psyche, probably since Adam and Eve, or at least the development of myths about Adam and Eve.] 

On the other hand, being guilty of trespassing against the mores of society can get you into a heap of trouble with punishment.  But this is not the guilt Jesus was referring to.  He was referring to the guilt that comes from having done wrong or failed an obligation in our relationship with God.  That would be specifically, thinking and acting against God’s will or failure to maintain a relationship with him.  Doing the wrong thing or reneging on an obligation to God retards one’s spiritual progress, but it does not result in punishment; that is, unless you think a slow down toward perfection as a form of punishment, which I do.  It bothers me enough to be very diligent concerning my guilt feelings.  And that would be feelings of having not done God’s will; not wanting to do God’s will; ignoring or avoiding God’s will; procrastinating God’s will;  or having momentarily broken off my communication with him in order to pretend I didn’t get the message. (Reality Avoidance)

PS: When I type there are clear paragraph spaces.  When I hit submit, they disappear.  I don’t know how to deal with it.  Sorry.

[Mara]

Bonita wrote:  A blissful life devoid of danger does not induce the growth of character or wisdom.

Maybe you mean the ease-seekers, the reality-avoiders.  Jesus did speak of ease-drifting.

178:1:10  Tempt not the angels of your supervision to lead you in troublous ways as a loving discipline designed to save your ease-drifting souls.

Bonita wrote:  Jesus came to free us from fear of punishment, the fear of a wrathful God.

. . . and the other erroneous teaching that developed after his bestowal – that we are born sinful and have to accept his death on the cross as a remission of sin – if you do thus and so, according to the particular interpretation put forth by one’s religious guru, priest, pastor, etc.  And if you don’t you’re going to burn in hell.  It’s the fear of the devil and the fear of damnation that keeps some modern religionists in line, and, perhaps guilt free.  I did not get that sort of religious training.  I didn’t get any religious training to speak of from my family.

Apparently, some bear more guilt than others.  You are innocent if you know not the gospel, i.e. less guilt.  But if you know the gospel and knowingly sin = more guilty.  In his last interview with Pilate, Jesus said, in part:

185:7:2  “But you are not so guilty since you are ignorant of the gospel. He who betrayed me and he who delivered me to you, they have the greater sin.”

[Julian]

I agree Bonita. This has probably already been said by somebody but I see guilt as having usefulness if it motivates us to right a wrong or demonstrate repentance which should get rid of the guilt. However, I have come across many clients who feel a kind of perpetual guilt which is not related to any specific misdemeanour. I tend to refer to this as shame rather than guilt. It is a sense that I am wrong rather than I’ve done something wrong. It’s roots usually go back to childhood. I believe Jesus can set people free from this affliction.

Just another thing…..we know that the dictates of the human conscience and the influence of our Adjusters are not the same. We’ve all experienced a guilty conscience but does our Adjuster make us feel guilty?

Do not confuse and confound the mission and influence of the Adjuster with what is commonly called conscience; they are not directly related. Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard. Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading. P.1207:7, 1208:0

[Bonita]

Mara wrote:  Maybe you mean the ease-seekers, the reality-avoiders.  Jesus did speak of ease-drifting.

Actually, I was thinking more of these quotes from Paper 48:

12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

Mara wrote:. . . and the other erroneous teaching that developed after his bestowal – that we are born sinful and have to accept his death on the cross as a remission of sin – if you do thus and so, according to the particular interpretation put forth by one’s religious guru, priest, pastor, etc.  And if you don’t you’re going to burn in hell.  It’s the fear of the devil and the fear of damnation that keeps some modern religionists in line, and, perhaps guilt free

You know, I’ve been thinking for almost a month now about starting a thread on Hell.  I didn’t dare do it while the troll was here, but now might be a good time.  Those erroneous teachings you mention did not start after Michael’s bestowal.  They go way, way, way back before his arrival.  It was something already well engrained in the human psyche when Jesus came.  That is why he taught sonship with a loving Father.  The prevailing thought was that man is the son of the “evil one” and that his whole life must be spent negotiating a release from that inheritance by offering sacrifices, both literal and philosophical.  No, that notion had such a grip on mankind that even Melchizedek couldn’t shake it loose, and most had trouble accepting Jesus’ teaching about it as well.  And it’s still holding on, like gorilla glue, even today. Every Christian I know thinks Jesus came to this earth in order to be a sacrifice for their sins.  Terrible stuff, but it’s so, so deeply embedded, I think to pull out the weed in some cases might actually kill the wheat too.

[Bonita]

Julian wrote:  I tend to refer to this as shame rather than guilt. It is a sense that I am wrong rather than I’ve done something wrong. It’s roots usually go back to childhood. I believe Jesus can set people free from this affliction.

I agree that Jesus wanted to set people free from low levels of self-respect.  I think there is some confusion today over the difference between self-esteem and self-respect.  In my opinion,  you can be ashamed of your behavior and ashamed of yourself and still have self-respect. You gain self-respect when you recognize your erroneous thinking or behavior and correct it. But this shame that I’m thinking about is balanced in that it’s just enough to make you humble and realize that your own ego is nothing to be too proud of.  Shame can be healthy if well-placed, in moderation and short-lived.

It’s a problem when self-punishment gets attached to shame and guilt.  I think this sets the stage for the mind to get out of balance, and that brings us back to the punishment problem.  I consider self-punishment to be misdirected self-control. If we try to control ourselves like a dominating or cruel parent, then there is real trouble to be had.  Isn’t that why we’re supposed to develop a relationship with a divine Father, to get to know how a truly loving parent treats a misdirected child-ego?  But, I can see why some people have difficulty developing that relationship if they have nothing to base it on from their outer life.  Hence the warning about earth-fathers being better examples of our heavenly Father.

I like the fact that the UB uses the word self-mastery.  In my mind that word takes away the punishment element, but maybe that’s only in my mind  . . . dunno.  Perhaps that’s why the Eastern religions are more successful in teaching the self-mastery thing, because there is no need to have a relationship with a loving divine Father or earth-father; it’s only about the self and the environment of the self.  It’s not the best approach, but perhaps better than nothing.

Julian wrote:  Just another thing…..we know that the dictates of the human conscience and the influence of our Adjusters are not the same. We’ve all experienced a guilty conscience but does our Adjuster make us feel guilty?

No.  The conscience is an adjutant level of the human mind, or psyche. It is superanimal (higher adjutant), but subspiritual (soul).  The adjutants are responsible for prompting ethical and moral thought.  The cosmic mind has reflexes designed for recognition of those prompts.  Once discovered and recognized, the interpretation, or meaning, becomes an internal soul matter in which Deity presence plays a part – Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth and Adjuster.  The moral conscience is the pre-existent soil from which we become aware of the inner presence of these Spirits.  When properly aroused, the moral conscience is the adjutant gateway to the soul where true meanings and values are sorted out.

Some people never get to the soul level of thinking about these moral and ethical prompts (so few deep thinkers). They remain locked in the adjutant level by their overly conscientious conscience, of which shame, guilt and punishment become big players.  Jesus came to set them free from that negative cycle, but part of the process is the willingness to accept the fact that God lives within them.  There has to be an acceptance of the personality of God who longs for their individual company . . . I could go on and on about that, but I think my point is easily understood.

 

[Mara]

Julian wrote:  I tend to refer to this as shame rather than guilt. It is a sense that I am wrong rather than I’ve done something wrong. It’s roots usually go back to childhood. I believe Jesus can set people free from this affliction.

Does the sense that I am wrong (rather than I’ve done something wrong) relate to a sense of unworthiness?  A sense of low self-worth? Low self-esteem?  Now that I can relate to.  That I have experienced. Everything changed for me following my finding Jesus who did free me from this affliction.  People talk about “salvation” and getting “saved”.  I talk about my experience as getting “salvaged”.  But I am not sure what is the connection between guilt and a sense of unworthiness.  Sorry to be so dense.

89:10:4   The possibility of the recognition of the sense of guilt is a badge of transcendent distinction for mankind. It does not mark man as mean but rather sets him apart as a creature of potential greatness and ever-ascending glory. Such a sense of unworthiness is the initial stimulus that should lead quickly and surely to those faith conquests which translate the mortal mind to the superb levels of moral nobility, cosmic insight, and spiritual living; thus are all the meanings of human existence changed from the temporal to the eternal, and all values are elevated from the human to the divine.

[Julian]

Thank you Bonita and Mara! You both made some excellent points. You are both natural teachers. I will try to add more to this a bit later.

[Bonita]

Mara wrote:  But I am not sure what is the connection between guilt and a sense of unworthiness.  Sorry to be so dense.

An unreasonable sense of unworthiness comes from a lack of self-respect.  But I think recognition of a reasonable degree of self-unworthiness is necessary for spiritual progress.  I think the UB refers to it as a sense of smallness, or humility, that childlike attitude the Master taught us to embrace.  I suppose in some individuals this sense of unworthiness gets twisted into self-abasement, and that’s the punishment thing coming in again.  Why some people do that, I cannot say. That’s better left to the psychoanalysts. Each individual has their own issues that need cognitive therapy, the process of turning thought around in order to get moving forward.  Some are able to utilize Thought Adjusters for that, but not many, unfortunately.

But a feeling of not being perfect, rather than destroying a person’s self-respect, should encourage a person to want to strive to become more perfect.  I think wallowing in a feeling of unworthiness comes either because you’ve been taught to do that or you enjoy doing that. There are some people who use their exaggerated sense of unworthiness as an excuse to go nowhere.  But I also think that there are some who get stuck in that cycle because no one has told them that there is another way, embrace the gospel and strive to become more than you are.

Guilt, on the other hand, is a feeling of having done or thought something wrong, wrong in a sense that it doesn’t sit well with your soul.  When you do or think something that causes a bit of inner conflict, doubt or confusion, then feelings of guilt should be aroused.  It’s what you do with the guilt that makes it useful or harmful.  If you attach punishment to it, I think it’s harder to progress forward.  Instead you end up in a self-destructive negative feed-back loop. Guilt is simply the inner warning system meant to alert you to the train that is coming down the tracks.  Guilt should wake you up and bring down the gate, preventing you from being crushed by your own stupidity (lack of wisdom).

[Mara]

Bonita wrote:. . . unworthiness comes from a lack of self-respect.

That makes sense to me – at least in my experience.  Getting salvaged was the turning point for me.  Reminds me of this, though in my case, no human teacher-preacher influenced my birth into the kingdom.

159:3:3    In bringing men into the kingdom, do not lessen or destroy their self-respect. While overmuch self-respect may destroy proper humility and end in pride, conceit, and arrogance, the loss of self-respect often ends in paralysis of the will. It is the purpose of this gospel to restore self-respect to those who have lost it and to restrain it in those who have it. Make not the mistake of only condemning the wrongs in the lives of your pupils; remember also to accord generous recognition for the most praiseworthy things in their lives. Forget not that I will stop at nothing to restore self-respect to those who have lost it, and who really desire to regain it.

[Mara]

Bonita wrote:  Guilt, on the other hand, is a feeling of having done or thought something wrong,

I did not grow up with the word guilt in my vocabulary.  Neither was the word sin in my vocabulary.  Intellectually, I can partly comprehend guilt and sin. They might motivate or be stunting.  Apparently and by my understanding, there are degrees of guilt and sin – some are more guilty/sinful than others, some less so.  The sense of and the interpretation of the consequences of wrongdoing (instigating a sense of guilt or sinfulness or shame) varies as well.   Some people leap without looking.  Others weigh every step.  And everything else in between.

Last night we read about John the Baptist in study group.  It brought to my mind an interpretation of why the Jews flocked to the Jordan for baptism.  Perhaps they felt some kind of national guilt, pertaining to national wrongdoing as an explanation of why the Messiah, their idea of Messiah, hadn’t appeared to deliver them from their Roman overlords.  People may have thought they personally sinned and it delayed the coming of the Messiah, and therefore they needed to repent and submit to John’s baptism with water.

136:1:5   The majority of the Jews believed that they continued to languish under Roman rule because of their national sins and because of the halfheartedness of the gentile proselytes. The Jewish nation had not wholeheartedly repented; therefore did the Messiah delay his coming. There was much talk about repentance; wherefore the mighty and immediate appeal of John’s preaching, “Repent and be baptized, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” And the kingdom of heaven could mean only one thing to any devout Jew: The coming of the Messiah.

[Bonita]

Mara wrote: People may have thought they personally sinned and it delayed the coming of the Messiah, and therefore they needed to repent and submit to John’s baptism with water.

I think this quote explains it:

136:2.1 Jesus was baptized at the very height of John’s preaching when Palestine was aflame with the expectancy of his message — “the kingdom of God is at hand” — when all Jewry was engaged in serious and solemn self-examination. The Jewish sense of racial solidarity was very profound. The Jews not only believed that the sins of the father might afflict his children, but they firmly believed that the sin of one individual might curse the nation. Accordingly, not all who submitted to John’s baptism regarded themselves as being guilty of the specific sins which John denounced. Many devout souls were baptized by John for the good of Israel. They feared lest some sin of ignorance on their part might delay the coming of the Messiah. They felt themselves to belong to a guilty and sin-cursed nation, and they presented themselves for baptism that they might by so doing manifest fruits of race penitence. It is therefore evident that Jesus in no sense received John’s baptism as a rite of repentance or for the remission of sins. In accepting baptism at the hands of John, Jesus was only following the example of many pious Israelites.

Not everyone thought they were sinners.  It was mostly a group-think phenomenon.  It was the nation they thought was guilty and they did it for the good of their “cause”.  It’s like the hashtag phenomenon today . . . like the whole world is going to change because you tag yourself to a twitter message. It’s an electronic form of baptism. Kind of crazy, but people do crazy things for a “cause”.

[Bonita]

Julian wrote:

Just another thing…..we know that the dictates of the human conscience and the influence of our Adjusters are not the same. We’ve all experienced a guilty conscience but does our Adjuster make us feel guilty?

Do not confuse and confound the mission and influence of the Adjuster with what is commonly called conscience; they are not directly related. Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard. Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading. P.1207:7, 1208:0

No, of course our Adjusters do not make us feel guilty.  Our Adjusters do not make us do anything.  Adjusters have no power or control over human will.  But they do have power or control over the phenomenon of spiritualizing thought within the soul.  It is up to us to discover, recognize, interpret and choose those thoughts.

The conscience admonishes, but the Adjuster leads with inner light.  The conscience is an adjutant function of thought, the Adjuster is a superconscious function of thought.  The more spiritual we become, the more conscious we become of what is truly light and right – spiritual insight.

The path to the soul begins with moral thinking.  The conscience is the soil where the seeds of spiritual thinking are sown, but actual spiritual thinking occurs in the soul (supermind) where the Adjuster has greater control over spiritualized thought.  The conscience is superanimal (human), the soul is superhuman (morontia).

[Author]

Posts