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MidiChlorian wrote: If one would take your attitude, which I read as, just sit back and wait for whom ever to take care of problems or issues on this world, then I would suggest that you are not of finaliter potential, therefore if what I have presented is a possible factor, your insistence that there is nothing wrong with this world, or that there are problems with this world but let someone else handle it, might be altering either God’s plan or the Supreme plan?
Me here: I have no idea why you would make such false presumptions and antagonistic accusations. When have I ever said there “is nothing wrong with this world”? Who is just sitting “back” and waiting for “someone else to handle it”? The choices and acts of every mortal of every generation causes effects within the mind and within the community, large and small, especially so if it is true, beautiful, and good. Every believer and UB student must or should know that we are obligated to act….and not to wait. Our celestial friends cannot make divine lemonade without the harvest of mortal lemons. Our efforts provide opportunity and leverage for our celestial friends.
I will not bore you with any “list” of choices and actions I have taken in service to my family, community, and planet but that does not mean there is none…nor should any judge another by such an inventory….or lack of one. I cannot fathom the incentive or motive for such nonsense as you post here midi based upon my comfort with and confidence in my personal destiny or that of this world. Shameful. This is the very core teaching of the Revelation and of the Master. Fear not. Worry not. Be anxious for nothing….most especially the material evolutionary process of planetary progress. One could presume by your words that you lack such confidence in these teachings.
The world may not be friendly to you or to me and it was not so friendly for the Master either. But he knew of a certainty that the universe is indeed so….and so do I believe. It must be horrible to live in doubt and fear of Father’s power, purpose, and plan for his children. How sad.
Bradly, as your reply reflects, and as you respond, you assume that my statement, quoted in your reply and posted above, has a question mark at the end of the sentence. And, yes, as I indicated above, it is as I read in the context of most of your posts. However, having presented my statement as a question, it would seem that you have replied or answered some of my implications but, still presented additional questions which I read from the context of your reply above. Where it seems that you are easily angered when you present “why” “would [“you”] make such false presumptions and antagonistic accusations”, in that you follow with a response with you actual feeling on those subjects, where which my assumption has been answered.
If “we are obligated to act” then could you be more specific as to “how” or “what” that action would entail, where you often present UB quotes or narratives along with some of your statements but, they often don’t reflect the statement made?
As an example you statement above, “Our celestial friends cannot make divine lemonade without the harvest of mortal lemons.” Which you have used the “lemonade” making many times in the past but, here you present additional context which might indicate, as I read into, or from it, those “celestial friends” are “harvesting” “mortal lemons”, which might imply a lesser mortal which is harvested?, not sure how this does not imply some form change through selection?, not sure but, if they are making “lemonade” then wouldn’t this imply that these “mortal lemons” are just squeezed together into a vat for the consumption by divinity? If you are confused by my analogy, that’s because I intended it to be. I only have an assumption about why you would say something like this, where it may be considered a riddle to some; could you explain this in detail?
In your second paragraph you just seem to attack me based on your assumption of what you think that I may have said, where it seems definite that you are easily angered, and respond with or by emotion rather than with a question to me regarding my true intent, since my narration is difficult for you to comprehend? This might be something which I would avoid by not instigating, if we were to ever meat in person, which we won’t but actually may have in the past?
Why do you imply above in your last sentence, that it would be “horrible” for me to “live”, which some might take as an accusation and a judgment as to my understanding of my “Father’s power, purpose, and plan“, where it implies that you know these things, and have judged me to not know? How, is it that you know me not?
Bradly wrote: …what “secret klan leadership”?To clarify……..According to its Charter (accessible on this website http://urantia-association.org/documents/charter/UAI_Charter_en.pdf), Urantia Association International registered in Illinois, USA, is:…a nonprofit, service organization formed to disseminate the teachings of The Urantia Book in order to promote, improve, and expand comprehension and appreciation among the peoples of the world of cosmology, of the relationship of the planet on which we live to the universe, of the genesis and destiny of man and his relation to God, and of the true teachings of Jesus.…Its mission is:To foster study of The Urantia Book and to disseminate its teachings.Such a mission is impossible without leadership. I recently heard someone say “the world is run by those who show up.”So it is with believers, responding to the invitation command to accept sonship “let all who will, come” and “be you perfect as the Father is perfect.”At this early pioneering stage of a revealtion we cheer each one that shows up and so we should, for they happen to be answering the inner call. The call to serve can come from unexpected places and in unusual form, friendship extended sincerely is characteristic of the sons and daughters of the Father. Leading by example.Being a grassroots organisation it is accountable to its members and is bound by its principle to be transparent and open in its activities.The Association is motivated by service, yet, by being a representative body it is bound to suffer the limitations of institutionalism. Become self-serving rather than people serving and due to its structure have limited capacity to adapt to change. Of course, questions of legitimacy are going to arise, this is inevitable whenever a representative body is formed.I’m of the view it is only by maintaining consistency with the teachings of The Urantia Book can the Association have an ongoing service function.Bradly, to deny leadership, does not make sense, Chris Wood is President and he is ably supported by the ISB who all are listed in the Annual Report (on this website http://urantia-association.org/2015/09/18/2014-annual-report/), you among them as Chief Financial Officer. No need to hide your light under a bushel.The Association is very pro-active in the area of leadership having held a Leadership Simposium in 2011 (info on this website http://urantia-association.org/?s=Leadership+Symposium&x=1&y=6 ), specifically on finding, training and retaining the future leaders within the growing brotherhood of Urantia Book readers.Yes, the Association is actively serving, and in doing so, will gain legitimacy as a creditable representative organisation, fostering progress of of advanced truth into the public arena.Just as, the task is important the self is not, the function is important the Association is not.Life is but a day’s work, do it well. Bradly, my faith informs me, the sure course is to stay focussed on doing the Father’s will and all agencies of the universe will come to your aid to ensure what is of God will stand.@Vern – Type in CIA and Urantia and see what happens…
Yea, even Jesus retained a “sour grapes” attitude towards Herod for the remainder of his life and based on the whole “anti-Semite” schtick, well then the “Woe to you” rant of Jesus certainly qualifies, as does the clearing the temple incident…not to mention the clear statement about “as a race”, they lost their SPIRITUAL leadership position. It is what it is. A CLEAR example of contrast between the religion of Jesus and the perfidy of an elite minority of religionists of “authority”. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
Bottom line TRUTH is that every human being has the right to make their life less miserable through honest work. Paper 50 is an INSTRUCTION on what “honest work” would have been and the rewards of it – God’s Plan – for a planet which has the destiny of Light and Life. Certain acts one human takes against another will ALWAYS increase the amount of hatred floating around not knowing where to attach itself so it is always attached to a person – the “sacrifice” of one for the sins of the many.
Theft, murder, bearing false witness, stabbing people in the back for UNEARNED position in society – these sins increase hatred and set in motion a spiral of revenge. “Disfellowshipping” people who do nothing else with their days or their brains – that whole “greed is good” religion of the materialist that finally imaged a non-god so that “good” can be a deity attribute that does not need a deity other than “greed” – is EASY because of the contrast between that philosophy and the religion OF Jesus.
Why all the bosom-heaving among Ubites? What was WRONG with looking at Paper 50’s instructions for the JOBS that Nodites were supposed to “create” if their chosen destiny was planetary light and life according to God’s Will for humanity?
Until there is an “app” on the smartarse phone that cleans a dirty diaper when you wave the diaper over the phone, “app” development does not fall into the category of “honest work”. Shamans of Gizmology are the Most pretentious Highs yet. A big spiritual ick….and an “artificial intelligence” revolution that will not stand the test of time.
Do not care what “list” I get put on by Ubites. It is all a lie. As for a “eugenics” list, I could spend the next year of my life providing material proof that Ubites are not qualified to conduct “eugenics”.
Scheesh, I thought at least Vern would find it an interesting SPECULATION conversation started about “eugenics” to wonder what happened to the SOPs (list) for preserving the better strains of the gene pool that Van and Amadon followed from the time of the Rebellion until the Material Son and Daughter arrived….inquiring minds wanna know – who CENSORED that “list” that WAS put together by those “qualified”?
Thanks Vern but I’m not hiding…just shy maybe – hahahaha. My intention was to say that the “movement” does not have any central authority…especially some secret “klan”. The Association is a group of volunteers and donors that serve far more than we lead; our “leadership” is provided by a diverse group of servants but the movement is very large with many groups, large and small, each with different leadership. Lots of leadership in the movement…some very good leadership and vision and experience and wisdom and not just in the Association…so I’m not denying the fact, function, or role of leadership. I do what I can but far many others do and have done much, much more….including you my brother friend….especially you. You shine and have been for a long time.
Sabinatu wrote: …SOPs (list)Sorry you lost me with this one NFI???Yes, agree, looking at the methods of Van and Amadon are worthwhile considerations. I’ve just been crusing in and out occasionally and will add some more soon. Good topic.
Bradly wrote: …The Association is a group of volunteers and donors that serve far more than we lead…It requires courage to stand firm on heartfelt truth………to stand and be willing to be counted as a faith son or faith daughter. That’s leading by example.In partnership with God, great things can, and do, happen.Sabinatu wrote: …SOPs (list)Sorry you lost me with this one NFI??? Yes, agree, looking at the methods of Van and Amadon are worthwhile considerations. I’ve just been crusing in and out occasionally and will add some more soon. Good topic.Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) – anything that is manufactured has to be standardized. Tongue in cheek on my part – bit of humor – but I guess lots of people never had experience with producing a standard quality product with a range of specifications. If a product does not meet the specifications, it is not released. At least that used to be the way manufacturing was done in USA….so little of it left that the SOP cultural reference is no longer valid….Van and Amadon had an SOP and a “range of specifications” that they followed from the time of the Rebellion until they handed off the job to Adam and Eve. I find it curious that that knowledge has been completely erased. Another fallout from the Adamic default – the inability to preserve info humanity was meant to have – even basic hygiene info was obliterated.Can we talk about all the OTHER “eugenics” programs currently in play now? Like I said before, EVERYONE has been practicing “disfellowshipping” haphazardly….what I was taught at home about how to PERSONALLY choose when and with whom to procreate was definitely not what I heard coming from “the government” of USA, or churches, or universities of “higher learning”. As horrors like the Tuskagee Experiment come to light – which did a lot of good because it lead to Informed Consent (patient’s rights) – I am pretty sure I got the better set of PERSONAL instructions at home. The philosophy for those “policies”, if you will, were built upon what Rick Warren stated – children have a RIGHT to start out with a good skin suit – but I guess the accompanying check and balance to that becoming an SOP rests with people having the supermindal insight to put aside a very strong and selfish urge to self-procreate in favor of what is best for the child. How can you live with knowingly sentencing a new human to suffer in a bad skin suit because you BELIEVE that the only love you might ever find on this dark and confused world is the one you have to create for YOURSELF via progeny?Can’t get too “absolute” about “family” being the end all. People may surprise you. Maybe because of over-population, but it seems that the NOW generation in the throes of their breeding years are willing to develop SOPs for NORMAL healthy human specifications and also to submit to being awarded permission to breed. So it is NOT the “biology” that might be the hang up anymore. No matter how biologically fit the human specimen was, no one I know was going to present to their klan for acceptance a global war, drug or slave lord. For centuries you would only bring those home to get the klan to help you cleanse the local gene pool of their kind.Evolutionary religion as a guiding light for pre-emptive strike modern warfare by the bully is cosmic insanity. To give that kind of artificial intelligence (AKA Lucifer rebellion “rights” held “sacred” by religionists of authority like the Pharisees) a seat at the eugenics table is a joke to modern people. The conceit of adding brute force to have their way over those who do not accept their eugenics “qualifications” it comes to gene conserving mating is hate inducing – even extreme hate inducing. Always was and always will be.BTW, Vern, thanks for the info on who is who in the current Ubite Klan – nice to have a name to go with the “face” that represents the outworkings of the Most Highs – LOLSabinatu wrote: …the outworkings of the Most Highs…Hey that’s brilliant!If only The Association could see itself as the earthly equivalent, and aim to achieve such high representative standing as Adam and Eve did in bringing the high learning of Edentia to Urantia.Where is the centre of high learning and culture when it’s needed?Seek the higher and the lesser will be contained therein. As Jesus said:“…Let me assure you, once and for all, that, if you dedicate your lives to the work of the kingdom, all your real needs shall be supplied. Seek the greater thing, and the lesser will be found therein; ask for the heavenly, and the earthly shall be included. The shadow is certain to follow the substance.” [Paper 165:5.3, page 1823:3]
Sabinatu wrote: …I am pretty sure I got the better set of PERSONAL instructions at home.Exactly!If the family life is good the society will, likewise, be good…………………Onward!!Mara wrote: …I blurted out…If that’s was all it was, it’s no grounds for being flagged as inappropriate, someone is being too precious about their delicate condition.Some people love to dish it out but can’t take it if feelings are ruffled.At the dinner table I hear more confronting stuff from my children, families have built in tolerance, siblings are ruthless with each other, yet I know such familiarity is grounded in love. Growing up together has given each-other permission to be so free and uninhibited in expressing themselves.Mara I enjoy reading your comments and look forward to more from you.I only have an assumption about why you would say something like this, where it may be considered a riddle to some; could you explain this in detail?
The lemons and lemonade: The act is ours (lemons) and the consequence is God’s (lemonade – add the sugar of Divine love, the living water of truth, and stir with time and patience). Our acts, when sincere and delivered by love with truth, beauty, and goodness provides the materials for the outworking of progress by our unseen friends…it is not a conscious relationship, but it is an inherent one IMO. Personal growth and choice has a repercussive effect both within and without. The mortals are not the lemons, the lemons are a result of mortal choices. Just a personal analogy, not found in the UB….well, not precisely anyway.
@Vern – what went wrong with the family in USA is the topic of this movie and the viewpoint of Levinson – if you have not seen the movie, I do not think you would regret the 1+hour of your life that you spend watching it….
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/avalon-1990-1
Family is nothing more than savage tribalism/klanism these days in USA because it is a combined failure of at least 3 factors, imo – selfishness, fascist induced diversity (NWO eugenics) with wage slave labor as a goal, and the endless shaman of gizmology drumbeat of globalization which demands the destruction of culture (bad bad bad “nationalism”). Sigh. Tell me again who the Ubite “teachers” are going to be to 99% of the world….?
However, klan-ism is certainly the only protection the 1%ers have left against the 99%.
Sabinatu wrote: …klan-ism is certainly the only protection the 1%ers have left against the 99%.Is this an indication of imminent change in your assessment?A few interesting thoughts on tribalism:Human beings are all gregarious, both tribal and racial. These group segregations are inherent in their origin and constitution. Such tendencies can be modified only by advancing civilization and by gradual spiritualization. The social, economic, and governmental problems of the inhabited worlds vary in accordance with the age of the planets and the degree to which they have been influenced by the successive sojourns of the divine Sons. [Paper49:4.7,page 564:9]Time to factor in the Divine Son effect.First the tribe then the nation, which allows the family to flourish:…national life begins to replace tribal organization or rather to be superimposed upon the existing tribal groupings. But the great social achievement of the prince’s epoch is the emergence of family life. Heretofore, human relationships have been chiefly tribal; now, the home begins to materialize. [Paper 52:2.6, page 591:6]Sex equality is an essential prerequisite for a full appreciation of home life:This is the dispensation of the realization of sex equality. On some planets the male may rule the female; on others the reverse prevails. During this age normal worlds establish full equality of the sexes, this being preliminary to the fuller realization of the ideals of home life. This is the dawn of the golden age of the home. The idea of tribal rule gradually gives way to the dual concept of national life and family life. [Paper 52:2.7, page 591:7]We are late in the task of weeding the defectives:This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks. [Paper 52:2.11, page 592:4]We are told we have the capacity to identify then implement a program which effectively reduces the numbers of the obviously defective members of society.Pregnancy screening, with the option of termination of mongoloid embryos is a service which is already being offered to prospective parents.This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.
Family is nothing more than savage tribalism/klanism these days in USA because it is a combined failure of at least 3 factors, imo – selfishness, fascist induced diversity (NWO eugenics) with wage slave labor as a goal, and the endless shaman of gizmology drumbeat of globalization which demands the destruction of culture (bad bad bad “nationalism”).
Me here: WOW! So you think there are no good families founded in love and mutual support, giving experiential evidence of the mother and father natures in pattern to their children? Absurd. And sad. One must assume that this is your personal experience for it certainly does not represent my family or most families I have known and know today here in the USA or anywhere else at all. But I did just read in text that those of us blessed by a stable and loving family for our own foundational example and experience need to be more patient with those who were not so blessed and they will take longer to discover the loving father and patient mother’s ministry examples for themselves….if they ever do upon this world. Your blanket indictment of other people’s families sounds more like a sad commentary of your own experience than any form of truth or fact regarding the families of this world. You claim what none could even know by such rhetoric. I do think more needs to be done to support the family model as the ideal – still and always – of social structure and cultural advancement and that American culture has done much damage to the extended family leaving small, isolated nuclear families in distress and need of reinforcement on many levels.
What in the world is “fascist induced diversity”? The two terms – fascist and diversity – contradict one another. Your code talk is bordering on bizarre and does not originate from the UB which is what we are here to discuss and share together. To be so angry all the time about everything must be exhausting….and debilitating….and blinding.
Your opinion on globalization also contradicts that which we share here together. Globalization is an inherency on every single material planet inhabited by mortals in all the universe of universes – that’s 7 trillion worlds as I recall – the universal pattern. And the so called “gizmology” is the very centerpiece or axle upon which planetary progress now turns – more quickly forward into our destiny. Instant global communication and an archive of knowledge at every finger tip accelerates the potentials within evolutionary progress. From the printing press to the internet and the digital age will change the world even more and much faster than the printing press did. The evils inherent in profit motive are and will continue to give way to altruistic motivations for economic relationships at every level – another inevitability upon 7 trillion worlds – surely this Shrine of Nebadon as well! As slavery bridges humanity from cannibalism to city building, profit bridges us from serfdom to the service motivated economy to come we are taught – this is inevitable, if not pretty to see or predictable in its failures and frustrations.
Your dark view of humanity and planetary evolutionary progress seems to just get dimmer and dimmer, offering less and less light on whatever topic is under discussion. How very sad to be so tormented by such progress as we witness, merely because it is not fast enough for our impatience or going the way we might design and prefer.
I would agree with a prior statement of yours that no UB student is worthy for any form of social eugenics engineering, priorities, selections, or plans and neither is any other mortal until wisdom, love, experience, and a better time unit perspective may attend such an effort. But science is creative in its pursuits delivered by the scientific method and will deliver the capabilities of self-eugenic and someday, state mandated eugenics through genetic tests and “cures” which will act, eventually, to reverse current trends of undesirable traits being perpetuated.
Science in many ways has created the problem – those weaknesses that would have killed the ones suffering them are now treated for mortality survival long enough to procreate and perpetuate many maladies that could not survive before antibiotics and other forms of innoculations and life sustaining treatments and surgeries. But it is hard to argue that such a practice is any form of conspiracy – it has been an act of scientific progression which treats and provides survival prior to its ability to prevent and cure….but that is coming too. It is but evolution playing out before our eyes! Still far from ideal…but progress made. So much progress on so many fronts. Only the blind cannot see it. And we are admonished to smile and be comforted in our Father’s assurance that all will be well….confident in knowing our personal and planetary destinies.
This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.
@Mr. Tharp – the fact that you hold a C-suite position in the Ubite international organization should curtail your tongue, but it doesn’t and you are allowed to babble on personally attacking and distorting REALITY. Do you not realize that I have enough data here on these forums to take you to civil court and expose your LIES about both what is in TUB and about my character? YOU hold the power which means you have more responsibility to not abuse it against little ol’ me…
Is someone whispering in your hobo educated ear about how little “power” I have to take you and the Ubite community on….?
But really, the only thing that is being clearly revealed is that you truly lack the inherent intelligence, and have never acquired the proper good manners, to discuss TUB with other readers.
And the lack of a classic education is evident in the fact that you know NOTHING about the parable of “shooting the messenger”. I am REPORTING the facts. Should you not be more concerned with why I am still “eternal” in the face of all the harassing and duress, punches and chokeholds, surrounding me instead of using the lamest and laziest schtick of all – “shooting the messenger”?
Keep at it. Just like the “Anonymous” hackers are succeeding where “homeland security” failed in taking down twitter accounts and other internet sites being used by extremists to create chaos, who is to say that Ubite-censored TUB sites will not be attacked in the same way?
The silence is deafening, isn’t it? No one but me still here – why is that?
Globalization occurs on planets not “dark and confused” AFTER so much else is taken care of – WAR, SLAVERY, USURY – all are GONE. The gene pool is also cleaner – more “normals”. Ubites are still promoting the “idea” – what is “normal”?
Globalization, at this stage on Urantia, is a cosmically insane delusional fiction.
@Vern – In 1934, with the family in USA still a patriarchal organization, Page 941 in TUB notes:“…Modern problems of child culture are rendered increasingly difficult by: 1. The large degree of race mixture. 2. Artificial and superficial education. 3. Inability of the child to gain culture by imitating parents – the parents are absent from the family picture so much of the time….”
If the point of the family is raising the kids – why do you cut and paste nothing about how “fathers” can gain control over the situation with father-love ala Jesus style and stop stuffing delusion “ism” ideology into the young heads – the #2 point – “artificial and superficial education”…?
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