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“I like utopia….it is an ideal until realized and actualized….or reached by ascension”
And it fits too. But the cool thing is that once you arrive at one, up pops another.
But still they give no real interpretation of exactly what eden is so my thoughts are it’s more analogous to a quest. Something humans have quested for for ages and everyone has an ideal eden.
Right. It’s the quest for ideals – values. That’s the soul’s search. We adapt by finding new meanings for values, thus growing and progressing towards perfection. Eden is perfection, the ideal. Our Adjusters are the source of both the ideal and the urge to quest for it. If a person’s “ideal eden”, as you say, isn’t in line with the Adjuster’s, they can quest from here to kingdom come and not get anywhere. A false ideal cannot be acted out even if the quest is acted out . . . hence the frustration of many modern ideological idealists . . . like the folks questing equality, for instance. A person’s “ideal eden” must come from the Adjuster, otherwise questing is just spinning around in circles going nowhere (no growth or progress).
All such questing possibly motivated by hammer anvil.
No, the motivation is not the hammer and anvil. Motivation is the ideal itself. The hammer and anvil is a metaphor for the directionalization of evolution which results in the expression, or actualization, of the ideal, the force for growth and progress. The hammer and anvil is the work necessary to forge new meanings, i.e. adaptability.
We are born imperfect animals. The gift of personality gives us self-consciousness which makes us aware of our own imperfections and need for perfection (anvil of necessity). But perfection is not gifted to us, we must choose to be perfected. In order to choose we must be able to discern the difference between good choices and evil choices (hammer of anguish). Anguish is suffering. We suffer from evil choosing, both our own and that of others. God has no use for robots created perfect who do exactly what he wants, when he wants. He wants us to choose to love and serve him. Therefore, the anguish inevitably comes from making mistakes as we evolve.
The existential folks eventuated in the Central Universe do not need the same contrasts between good and evil as we do, but they still need to constantly adapt to God’s will by free-will choice. They all have personalities and therefore also have free will, but none of them ever default or rebel. That’s why they don’t need anvils and hammers. Beings who live wholly in the spirit realm do not need to traverse the fringe of conflict as we do (159:3.7).
Gene wrote:Maybe there is an eden somewhere but from the quote, it makes me think that if we find it, adaptation to purpose (or questing if you will) stops. I can’t imagine the quest ending.
Right. The quest for perfection never ends. Even when we become finaliters we are only perfected in one area: perfection of purpose and divinity of desire (26:4.6). In other words, we arrive at a perfected desire for the quest of universe adaptation according to the Father’s will. Each person’s Eden, or Ideal, is the Adjuster. Even after fusion the Adjuster continues to reveal the Ideal Eden for each individual person into eternity (110:7.4).
Thx for so much clarification, I’m weak in that area obviously.
This all (hammer anvil especially) makes me think about Urantia as a decimal, experimental planet and I love this quote which kind of leads into the Agondonter thing:
From 50:7
THE REWARDS OF ISOLATION
On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievementIt’s an experience that many beings in the central perfect universe can only understand by getting to know Urantia ascenders. A form of adapting, no? Another utopia for the perfect.
Last time I’ll ramble on about this:
So back once again to the garden of eden language:
I believe the authors chose to use these words to describe the place where Adam and Eve lived and functioned possibly because it is easy for bible reading Christians to relate to.
And it is conceivable that this garden was the utopian quest for those intelligent humans of that era that responded to that urge to find their eden. That was the utopia of the times possibly.This quest for eden/utopia, if the traditional idea of the garden of eden was the catalyst for so many human quests proves one thing-the process of Adjuster prompting and our response to it followed by progress and growth that leads us to those edens/utopias was not at all hindered by the isolation caused by the rebellion.
In the three places where the book uses the “forged out between anvil and hammer” metaphor (or idiom), what is being forged is either “the universe”, “characters”, or “civilization.”
The universe of your origin is being forged out between the anvil of justice and the hammer of suffering… 9.1.8
The Creators are possessed of full power to make Urantia a veritable Paradise, but such an Eden would not contribute to the development of those strong, noble, and experienced characters which the Gods are so surely forging out on your world between the anvils of necessity and the hammers of anguish. 23.2.12
Urantia civilization was literally forged out between the anvil of necessity and the hammers of fear. 66.5.3
Contemporary use of the “anvil – hammer” idiom is interpreted as “expressing the choice between two unpleasant or distasteful options; in a predicament or quandary.” Or “facing two equally unpleasant, dangerous, or risky alternatives, where the avoidance of one ensures encountering the harm of the other.”
I suspect that the 1935 usage is closer to that of being “…in a predicament or quandary.” In the above quotes, the predicaments are between “justice and suffering”, “necessity and anguish”, and “necessity and fear.”
But perhaps the simplest interpretation is that of H.W. Beecher, “We are always on the anvil; by trials God is shaping us for higher things.”
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