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I consider my self both a Scientist and a Historian. If I had accepted any particular Region or anyone else’s explanation of the nature of reality, I suppose I would have stopped seeking and not concerned myself with the origin of this revelation. Many will say that if I am have not accepted this Book, that I do not belong here. Maybe yes, maybe no. Rest assured that I am only using the information provided here to research.
As I try to get busy reading the Book, I get stalled by the origin of the text. Do the readers here go back and look, or just assume that they already know what they need to know? Dr. William S. Sadler does not come out (in his time) and reveal that it was a sleeping patient that began the “Channeling” of extraterrestial information. It was not in his best interest to tell anyone. I would have disgraced him as a Doctor and perhaps to the Kellogg family. I also looked up Sioux Oliva for additional information.
Odd that one of my old influences Phineas P. Quimby also had a “subject” that he “hypnotised”. This led him to a healing career. He died abut 1866. His ideas were more or less stolen by Mary Baker Eddy who founded Christian Scientist.
So, the book evolved (and supporting documents were located), but no one can really pinpoint any origin. It seems that Sious Oliva is a reader of the book and gives great credit to the knowledge it contains. She says that if William Sadler wrote it himself, he would be right up there with DaVinci.
I believe when Dr. Sadler did write a book about a doctor and a (Unknown) patient, no one would publish it. When he did die, the newspapers gave him great credit but mentioned nothing about his contact with celestial beings. I believe even the Doctor was skeptical in regards to “mediums”. We all should be. There are “thought or beings out there” that have been channeling since humans could talk. It turns out that the writer Richard Bach wrote “Illusions” using automatic writing. It is impossible to determine how many poems and songs came to us this way.
If I may share a contrasting view to some of the things you posted, Rambleon. The Urantia Book was not “channeled” and it is not “extraterrestrial information”. Dr. Sadler himself, who was an expert on identifying phony channelers, said that the book was not channeled. Take a look at this account of the origins of the book to understand why it is not channeled.
http://ubhistory.org/documents/hb19971114_michaelsk_26.pdf (particularly items 87 a. and b. on page 8.)
For those of us who have read the entire book, at least once but especially several times, the origin of the book is of no consequence to us. The book stands on its own as one of the most consistent, well developed and expressed compilation of spiritual insights and philosophy ever written. Its principles have indisputable credibility, hence, the origin of the book is also entirely credible and is accepted on faith.
Now, please pass the corn flakes and let’s dig in!
I just erased the first post. Now to see how it works. Still trying to figure out why it posted twice though. As for how it got there, I did as you suggested and clicked on the edit link when trying to edit it this morning and wound up with two posts some how. Oh well. Still learning.
As a student of the UB for years, both as a skeptic and a believer, I’d like to add my two cents.
Did the origin of the book matter to me? Truthfully, yes, it did. But when I’d done a little research on it (and my research encompassed all sides of the issue from believers to nonbelievers alike) I came to the conclusion that if I were to accept the book as true, then I’d better accept the story of the books’ beginning as told by people who were actually there and those that directly knew said people as true (at least, according to the documents that we have) as well. After that decision was made, (and you can call it a leap of faith if you wish) I filed the information away and don’t think about it much anymore. Afterall, Bible believers don’t spend all the time trying to explain where the Bible came from do they? No, they may do it every now and then, but mostly they believe in the Bible and spend there lives trying to live the teachings that the Bible contains. It is the same with UB students. We may investagate the beginnings of the Urantia Book and the Urantia movement, but after we are satisfied we simply try to study the UB and live as best as we can according to the teachings it contains. Does a lot of what I said rest on faith? Yes, it does. But then again, every religious belief system, including the beginnings of said belief system, has to rest on faith at some point. Afterall, a religion that is several thousand years old has no original documents left to study. There may be copies, fragments, stories, but no orrigional source material to corroborate the beginnings of said religion. Concurrently, the same holds true for the documents, like the Bible for example, on wich a religion is based. If a religious system is accepted by a true believer then it is either an all or nothing deal. You accept the religious texts as presented and the associated stories built up around them as true or you do not and cease to be a part of that religion. This will hold true one day for the followers of The Urantia Book as well.
So, do I accept the Urantia Book as true? Yes I do. Do I accept the accounts that have come down to us from people who were there and from those who directly knew said people? Yes I do. Will I try to live the Urantia Book’s teachings in the truest sense that I can for the rest of my life? Yes I will. Is the Urantia book the document that is the source of my religion? Yes it is. Am I a true believer in, for lack of a better name for it, the Urantian religion? Yes I am.
I did not suggest that the entire book was “channeled”. There are independent historians mentioned on your own site that describe Dr. Sadler’s life and writings. Sioux Oliva is a Historian not limiting her writing to Dr. Sadler alone. I believe that she accepted the writings as very much inspired. The source is not really important especially to those who will not question the merit of the writings. Only someone looking at the early beginnings would understand the “corn flakes” reference. It was not a criticism, just an observation. When I first walked into a Christian Science Reading room, (don’t know how I got there) I was impressed by the portion of truth used to create this Religion.Of course in those days, I had to use written text and index cards to research Mary Baker Eddy. I remember donating copies of “the Quimby Manuscripts” (which disappeared rather than appear on the shelf. I found it interesting that our Army Brigade Minister was a Christian Scientist. They wear a cross on their uniform but they are officers. Best to leave that one alone.
I discovered Thesophy after reading some Annie Besant books. It was interesting to me that these “turn of the century” (Krishna Promoters) actually attempted to draw pictures of an atom! Oh well, talk about “skeletons in the closet”. A leader of Theosophy had brought a Hindu Boy to America proclaiming him to be the next messiah. There was a scandal of some sort. Something to do with Mr. Leadbeater’s molestation of this boy. Latter Krishna Murti (spelling?) Left this organization and wrote books of his own.
Nope, I have no judgement in the regards to written text. People have their flaws and for that reason only, I look back to see as much as is available to the origin of any written test.
Lot’s of people use portions of truth in the wrong way. (Especially the Christian Church).
That does not take away the value of the text in the Bible. Anyone can use it to support or deny the actions of human beings.
Nor does any personal research affect the belief of those that accept the Urantia Book. It might have arrived just when some humans needed it. Maybe I will be one of them. Too early to tell,
Rambleon, I am having trouble understanding the point of your post and your intent for this thread. You named the subject of the thread “Cornflakes”, so do you wish to talk about the Kellogg family? You also refer frequently to the Christian Science religion, child molestation, and several random folks who may or may not have used psychic phenomenon in their work.
What is the Urantia Book topic you wish to discuss?
Any one know how to edit a post without it reposting? Thanks!
Go to “Edit”. Change what you want to change. You can erase almost everything. When you are satisfied, “Submit” it.
I am not completely satisfied with the way the edit gizmo works. But it works okay. On your duplicate post, you can erase everything, but . . . leave something. Leave a comment or an asterisk or a smiley-face or a full-stop or something.
Anyhow, that’s what I discovered in my experience with this system.
As I try to get busy reading the Book, I get stalled by the origin of the text.
There are “thought or beings out there” that have been channeling since humans could talk.
It appears from your remarks that you are open to the possibility of contact with higher beings, while being aware of the many ways in which we might mistakenly identify purely human writings for those with truly supernatural origins. The Book presents a very appealing and self-consistent vision of God, man, and the universe, but is this vision true? From the religious perspective of insight into truth, beauty, and goodness, many students are convinced that the Book is what it claims to be. But this evidence is strictly personal in nature, and it is exceedingly difficult to objectively describe this subjective certainty to others. There are innumerable self-proclaimed revelations out there. How can we determine that the Book is an authentic revelation, instead of an extraordinary human creation by some DaVinci, as you put it?
From an historical perspective, the question of provenance is the first question. It is fascinating to study what records are available relating to its origin. However, there is no single authoritative and comprehensive account of how the Book appeared on this planet. Even if there were, it would not resolve the larger issue of whether or not we can trust this Book. It would simply shift doubts about the authenticity of the Book to doubts about the authenticity of this written record.
Scientific criticism of the Book consistently focuses on certain of its scientific facts which appear to be outmoded or incorrect. While this appears to be the case in several instances, there are also many scientific concepts in the Book which can only be considered potentially prophetic, since they go beyond what was known at the time the Book was published. If new unproven scientific concepts in the Book are eventually proven to be true, this would constitute a form of objective evidence validating the authenticity of the Book. Several such concepts have already been proven true subsequent to the Book’s publication, such as the theory of plate techtonics, to name just one.
If your interest is primarily scientific and historical, you might want to look at a series of formal papers presented this last June at the 2016 Science Symposium in Chicago. These ten papers examine how new developments in the sciences relate to the Book and deal with topics ranging from cell biology to the structure of the universe. They can be found at http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/study.
Corn flakes don’t have much nutritional value, though it was a nifty invention. (I thought the novel The Road to Wellville was hilarious.)
I was asked a question a few years back by one of the Trustees of Urantia Foundation. “How do you know the Book is true?” I answered, “It is as food to me. It feeds me.”
A friend once said, “They say this Book will change the world.” He pointed to the Book on the coffee table. We followed his eyes and looked at it. The Book just sat there. He said, “See! It’s not changing the world!” People change the world, not books.
195:9:1 Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and secular age. In all your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious creeds of past ages, make sure that you hold fast the eternal truth. But be patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus’ gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.The Book is a road-map, not the journey.I think there are several different ways to approach reading TUB. Personally, I use all of them.
1. As a literal and factual textbook.
2. As a historical document.
3. As a moral source, providing inspiration which influences behavior in a positive manner.
4. As a philosophical source used for contemplating ideology, meanings and values.
5. As an allegorical or symbolic source which mirrors the inner life resulting in deep personal meaning.
6. As an anagogic approach which stimulates idealistic strivings of the unconscious.
The beauty of TUB is that it has something enlightening for everyone regardless of their degree of spiritual receptivity. I think everyone has witnessed their own growth in the understanding of various passages. I know that over time, when I reread certain passages, they seem to take on new meanings. I think we have all experienced the phenomenon of finding something that we didn’t know was in the book despite having read it several times. New things keep popping up somehow, and I’m sure it’s determined by how deeply the information sinks in. Years of reading and studying helps to develop deeper roots.
This is not because of some blind faith in the words, but because the words come to have personal meaning. They seem to grow like the mustard seed. And isn’t this a feature of truth? Isn’t this exactly what truth does, live and grow? That’s how the book changes the world. The book is filled with words which act as seeds of truth planted in the mind. When they come to fruit, things happen.
I’m currently putting together an essay on the Word, and one of the things I’ve discovered is that the written and spoken word has enormous power. Jesus said to Thomas: “Your assurance that you have entered into the kingdom family of the Father, and that you will eternally survive with the children of the kingdom, is wholly a matter of personal experience – faith in the word of truth.” (146:3.4)
How do you recognize the “word of truth”? You begin with the Jesus and his Spirit of Truth. The Master told his apostles: ” . . . even though heaven and earth shall pass away, my words of truth shall not.” The apostle John knew that Jesus is the Word: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)
Either you recognize the word of truth in TUB or you don’t. There’s nothing anyone can do about those who cannot recognize the word of truth. It’s entirely an internal affair.
I knew Sioux back in the day when she was working on her Phd. I, too, read her book. What do I think about her book? Corn flakes.
I knew Sioux back in the day when she was working on her Phd. I, too, read her book. What do I think about her book? Corn flakes.
I’ll second that!!
Well said by all….thanks!
For me, it never mattered who might have written words of truth I have found which rang true when read and helped me develop new perspective by such illumination. I’ve read many a book along the pilgrim’s path. All contributed something, even when dismissed, as the discernment to accept or dismiss based on our own experience in and with truth is an important trait of the thinker and the looker.
Just before finding the UB, I was introduced to Seth by a coven of channeling white witches. Seth even gave me a new spirit name!! Dismissed. But entertaining….for awhile. I find the volume of initial reading or the very size of the UB keeps many away, especially when they discover it really needs to be read over and over again in time and by experience….this ain’t milk toast for spoon feeders. It takes a real commitment to knowing the UB to come to appreciate it. But when one does so, the claims it makes “fit” and for some inexplicable reason, become logical and reasonable…even to a skeptic mind who has already studied and dismissed much else! The origin becomes irrelevant if it is not from the first word read. Truth seekers seek truth…some of them know it when they find it. Experience in seeking brings discernment given enough time in the seeking and discerning.
So when I started reading the UB, the natural presumption was it is of human origin. But the more of it I read and read again, the obvious probability (100%) that it was of human origin began to fade. Over time, that option became problematic until it dawned on me it was actually an impossibility that this book was written by any human mind or hand!! The reasons are not obvious but as others have said, the integrated wholeness becomes what it claims to be to many, perhaps all who spend sufficient time in its study. There are obviously multiple authors and perspectives yet it is seamless in its multiple presentations of reality and all the new concepts presented all of which completely integrate one with another. The most fascinating piece of literature I’ve ever read.
I would hope that the origin of the Urantia Book is within us. I was thinking back to about the time I found about this book. This draws me a bit closer in regards to close examination. I do not sleep well, but I do believe I get enough. My eyes open at 5:00 A.M. Every morning no matter what time I go to bed. It is often “thinking” keeps me awake. I suspect many people do this. I remember a year ago “Googling” How to Stop Thinking. It is not always easy to do this. With a tropical storm bearing down on us now, I may wake up with my house on the way to OZ. I live within 100 yards of the water. I stocked up on water, food and made sure I have gas in my Pickup. If we lose power, I might have to use the internet more, darn it.
Anyway, I now recall that I had been in that state of mine between sleep and awake. About a two weeks ago, I passed the time talking (in my mind) to “all that is”. These were my thoughts as a went to sleep. I was requesting a verbal response from Spirit. Specifically a beneficial one. (Never hurts to ask). Now that I think about it, that was the time I discovered the Urantia Book.
I did speak with a “reader” on the phone. Does that count?
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