Chance, Random???

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    Hello to TUB readers:
    I have just finished reading TUB in its entirety. Needless to say much of it was beyond my immediate comprehension. I have spent most of my life studying Easten philosophy and religion and therefore was grounded in the concept of reincarnation. TUB has led me to question that classic concept and am therefore left in a sort of gray area as to why certain things can occur. Now I don’t see things following defined laws or patterns.
    Since the free will concept is primary to TUB, with celestial beings in charge of various stages of evolution wherever making bad choices, resulting in events that cause hardships for evolving mortals, it is obvious that random and chance are very present. I am sure this all fits well in the divine plan which the Father implemented. I am just not at yet equipped to even partially grasp it.
    There are some questions I would like opinions on from anyone:
    One…I get it, your mortal birth body is determined by your parents so you as the new mortal body has no input as to where you end up and who your parents are. Chance is very present in my opinion. What happens if you are born with a totally deficient mind rendering you incapable of making moral decisions at the age of five or six. Is such a mortal denied a Thought Adjuster. And if so, what is the end result of such a birth for that mortal? No personality which can reach the ultimate goal of Paradise? Does such a mortal have a path of choice still open to attain further morontia progression?
    Second: I understand that Faith and service to humanity are the paths to progression but there are and have been many mortals in positions that seem totally unfair compared to the many who are born into lives of ease. Classic Eastern reincarnation seemed to account for where and why you are born where you are and the circumstances of your life. In TUB random and chance seem very present in a mortals birth. I must get to understand that things on the Urantia level or throughout the universe are subject to completely unpredictable random and chance occurrences. If I am wrong I will in time learn otherwise.
    I am sure to the more enlightened TUB students these types of questions are evidence of lack of comprehension and in my case most likely true. But, I am kind of in a position of feeling rudderless on the sea as I no longer have the conviction I had with the reincarnation beliefs and don’t have a good overall understanding of TUB even tho in my heart I believe it to be true.
    All opinions or advice greatly appreciated.

    Bart (Fordstar7)

    Nigel Nunn

    Hi Bart,

    Regarding the capacity of the physical system we chance to receive, I think the main criterion is simply:  “Is it normal? Is it a fully functioning human system?”  If yes, then the associated intellect has access to all seven adjutant urges and capacities (see rhythmic pulsations, 117:5.7).  Which also implies encircuitment with the Divine Minister, and the capacity for making a moral choice.

    And on this world, this means an Adjuster will seek you out, and despite our fears, this fragment of our Father will help you build something that will take your breath away:  your unique and priceless soul.

    Regarding the physical resources and opportunities we enjoy (or suffer) during this brief launch-life, i.e. not enough vs. far too much, from the larger perspective of our amazing futures, such disparity lasts for less than a flap of a hummingbird’s wing.  And as I’m sure you’ve noticed in your reading, the more difficult and strenuous this moment of mortal life, the more opportunity the Adjuster has for weaving fibres into your soul.



    Hi Nigel:
    Thank you for your input. It just prompted me to have a thought that just  might be a big help for me.

    Thru the course of evolution there have been many failures for any given species to progress.   If a mortal is not born in a “fully functional human system” is it wrong to just consider it a failure of  just that particular mortal birth and since it has no Thought Adjuster it cannot progress as it should.   In essence it is not unjust in the scheme of evolution to just consider it a failure much like the case of a failed animal species and as such really has nothing to do with that individual mortal birth failure.  With a former strong belief in reincarnation this would never even be considered.

    Is this a rational thought with respect to TUB teachings?

    I appreciate your concise, brief and to the point opinions.

    Thank you.




    Welcome Bart,

    Very interesting point of view concerning handicaped childrens of God.

    Family Crises


    Andre:   Thank you for your reply and writing.  I am in kindergarten with respect to integrating and understanding much of TUB.  You have a better grasp of the larger picture which helps me to realize I too, have to widen my perspective to gain more understanding.
    Being the parent of a teen suicide I had so many of the same concerns for the ultimate future of the soul of our son.  I now have the same hopes that you have and a further opportunity will exist for him, with help from us.
    Thank you for your time!

    Greetings Bart!!

    The Urantia Papers teach us that the universe of universes is indeed a series and sequence of patterns which are increasingly subject to evolutionary and experiential forces of potential and progress the further out from the perfect patterns of origin in Paradise.   There is no chaos by any definition.  We live in a very orderly universe.  But it does not appear so from here…hahaha!!

    But even the very next level of reality for us mortals – The Mansion Worlds  – are far more orderly and far less “random”.  Wisdom is both a personal and societal/group progressive acquirement of freewill which always results in greater order and harmony in time.

    The perfecting approach the perfect.  The source is the destiny.  The universe is based on love, brotherhood, and fairness.  Potentials are precious.  All mortal life is filled with potential.  And we are all loved and given mercy and patience to realize our potential.

    Back with some quotes later.  Glad you are here .

    Bradly :good:


    Hi Bradly:

    Thank you for your response and post.  I am grateful for your sharing of opinion as I am in need of help to gain more insight into TUB and how it affects my view point.  Tho I have read the entire book coming from a reincarnation belief is sometimes confusing and your insight helps me look at things from a different perspective.   Very helpful and am eager to hear from anyone with insight or opinion.

    Thank you for your time



    When I found the UB (or it found me!) I was into Zen Taoism.   You will come to find the UB teachings are very “Eastern”  as is the Jesusonian Gospel.  Above you speak of reincarnation which has its mythical roots deeply imbedded in truth and historical fact as the progressive attainment of wisdom/enlightening true and more accurate than Christianity’s perfection by death mythology.

    We do not return to this same world over and over but progress requires growth and spiritization and ever more wisdom and perfecting.  Karma is very real – the repercussions of choice and those gains of love and losses by self importance and the causes of suffering in life and the world and the cures of suffering should all feel very familiar to one who studies the UB and Eastern philosophies.   Very compatible indeed.





    12:7.7 (138.2) The will of God does not uniformly prevail in the heart of the God-seeking material mortal, but if the time frame is enlarged beyond the moment to embrace the whole of the first life, then does God’s will become increasingly discernible in the spirit fruits which are borne in the lives of the spirit-led children of God. And then, if human life is further enlarged to include the morontia experience, the divine will is observed to shine brighter and brighter in the spiritualizing acts of those creatures of time who have begun to taste the divine delights of experiencing the relationship of the personality of man with the personality of the Universal Father.

    12:7.8 (138.3) The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man present the paradox of the part and the whole on the level of personality. God loves eachindividual as an individual child in the heavenly family. Yet God thus loves every individual; he is no respecter of persons, and the universality of his love brings into being a relationship of the whole, the universal brotherhood.

    12:7.9 (138.4) The love of the Father absolutely individualizes each personality as a unique child of the Universal Father, a child without duplicate in infinity, a will creature irreplaceable in all eternity. The Father’s love glorifies each child of God, illuminating each member of the celestial family, sharply silhouetting the unique nature of each personal being against the impersonal levels that lie outside the fraternal circuit of the Father of all. The love of God strikingly portrays the transcendent value of each will creature, unmistakably reveals the high value which the Universal Father has placed upon each and every one of his children from the highest creator personality of Paradise status to the lowest personality of will dignity among the savage tribes of men in the dawn of the human species on some evolutionary world of time and space.

    12:7.10 (138.5) This very love of God for the individual brings into being the divine family of all individuals, the universal brotherhood of the freewill children of the Paradise Father. And this brotherhood, being universal, is a relationship of the whole. Brotherhood, when universal, discloses not the eachrelationship, but the all relationship. Brotherhood is a reality of the total and therefore discloses qualities of the whole in contradistinction to qualities of the part.

    12:7.11 (138.6) Brotherhood constitutes a fact of relationship between every personality in universal existence. No person can escape the benefits or the penalties that may come as a result of relationship to other persons. The part profits or suffers in measure with the whole. The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part. The relative velocities of part and whole determine whether the part is retarded by the inertia of the whole or is carried forward by the momentum of the cosmic brotherhood.

    12:7.12 (139.1) It is a mystery that God is a highly personal self-conscious being with residential headquarters, and at the same time personally present in such a vast universe and personally in contact with such a well-nigh infinite number of beings. That such a phenomenon is a mystery beyond human comprehension should not in the least lessen your faith. Do not allow the magnitude of the infinity, the immensity of the eternity, and the grandeur and glory of the matchless character of God to overawe, stagger, or discourage you; for the Father is not very far from any one of you; he dwells within you, and in him do we all literally move, actually live, and veritably have our being.

    12:7.13 (139.2) Even though the Paradise Father functions through his divine creators and his creature children, he also enjoys the most intimate inner contact with you, so sublime, so highly personal, that it is even beyond my comprehension—that mysterious communion of the Father fragment with the human soul and with the mortal mind of its actual indwelling. Knowing what you do of these gifts of God, you therefore know that the Father is in intimate touch, not only with his divine associates, but also with his evolutionary mortal children of time. The Father indeed abides on Paradise, but his divine presence also dwells in the minds of men.

    12:7.14 (139.3) Even though the spirit of a Son be poured out upon all flesh, even though a Son once dwelt with you in the likeness of mortal flesh, even though the seraphim personally guard and guide you, how can any of these divine beings of the Second and Third Centers ever hope to come as near to you or to understand you as fully as the Father, who has given a part of himself to be in you, to be your real and divine, even your eternal, self?


    Lessons on The Way, karma, the causes and the cure of suffering, the pure heart, and the fruits of the spirit:

    3. Buddhism

    131:3.1 (1446.3) Ganid was shocked to discover how near Buddhism came to being a great and beautiful religion without God, without a personal and universal Deity. However, he did find some record of certain earlier beliefs which reflected something of the influence of the teachings of the Melchizedek missionaries who continued their work in India even to the times of Buddha.Jesus and Ganid collected the following statements from the Buddhist literature:

    131:3.2 (1446.4) “Out of a pure heart shall gladness spring forth to the Infinite; all my being shall be at peace with this supermortal rejoicing. My soul is filled with content, and my heart overflows with the bliss of peaceful trust. I have no fear; I am free from anxiety. I dwell in security, and my enemies cannot alarm me. I am satisfied with the fruits of my confidence. I have found the approach to the Immortal easy of access. I pray for faith to sustain me on the long journey; I know that faith from beyond will not fail me. I know my brethren will prosper if they become imbued with the faith of the Immortal, even the faith that creates modesty, uprightness, wisdom, courage, knowledge, and perseverance. Let us forsake sorrow and disown fear. By faith let us lay hold upon true righteousness and genuine manliness. Let us learn to meditate on justice and mercy. Faith is man’s true wealth; it is the endowment of virtue and glory.

    131:3.3 (1446.5) “Unrighteousness is contemptible; sin is despicable. Evil is degrading, whether held in thought or wrought out in deeds. Pain and sorrow follow in the path of evil as the dust follows the wind. Happiness and peace of mind follow pure thinking and virtuous living as the shadow follows the substance of material things. Evil is the fruit of wrongly directed thinking. It is evil to see sin where there is no sin; to see no sin where there is sin. Evil is the path of false doctrines. Those who avoid evil by seeing things as they are gain joy by thus embracing the truth. Make an end of your misery by loathing sin. When you look up to the Noble One, turn away from sin with a whole heart. Make no apology for evil; make no excuse for sin. By your efforts to make amends for past sins you acquire strength to resist future tendencies thereto. Restraint is born of repentance. Leave no fault unconfessed to the Noble One.

    131:3.4 (1447.1) “Cheerfulness and gladness are the rewards of deeds well done and to the glory of the Immortal. No man can rob you of the liberty of your own mind. When the faith of your religion has emancipated your heart, when the mind, like a mountain, is settled and immovable, then shall the peace of the soul flow tranquilly like a river of waters. Those who are sure of salvation are forever free from lust, envy, hatred, and the delusions of wealth. While faith is the energy of the better life, nevertheless, must you work out your own salvation with perseverance. If you would be certain of your final salvation, then make sure that you sincerely seek to fulfill all righteousness. Cultivate the assurance of the heart which springs from within and thus come to enjoy the ecstasy of eternal salvation.

    131:3.5 (1447.2) “No religionist may hope to attain the enlightenment of immortal wisdom who persists in being slothful, indolent, feeble, idle, shameless, and selfish. But whoso is thoughtful, prudent, reflective, fervent, and earnest—even while he yet lives on earth—may attain the supreme enlightenment of the peace and liberty of divine wisdom. Remember, every act shall receive its reward. Evil results in sorrow and sin ends in pain. Joy and happiness are the outcome of a good life. Even the evildoer enjoys a season of grace before the time of the full ripening of his evil deeds, but inevitably there must come the full harvest of evil-doing. Let no man think lightly of sin, saying in his heart: ‘The penalty of wrongdoing shall not come near me.’ What you do shall be done to you, in the judgment of wisdom. Injustice done to your fellows shall come back upon you. The creature cannot escape the destiny of his deeds.

    131:3.6 (1447.3) “The fool has said in his heart, ‘Evil shall not overtake me’; but safety is found only when the soul craves reproof and the mind seeks wisdom. The wise man is a noble soul who is friendly in the midst of his enemies, tranquil among the turbulent, and generous among the grasping. Love of self is like weeds in a goodly field. Selfishness leads to grief; perpetual care kills. The tamed mind yields happiness. He is the greatest of warriors who overcomes and subdues himself. Restraint in all things is good. He alone is a superior person who esteems virtue and is observant of his duty. Let not anger and hate master you. Speak harshly of no one. Contentment is the greatest wealth. What is given wisely is well saved. Do not to others those things you would not wish done to you. Pay good for evil; overcome evil with the good.

    131:3.7 (1447.4) “A righteous soul is more to be desired than the sovereignty of all the earth. Immortality is the goal of sincerity; death, the end of thoughtless living. Those who are earnest die not; the thoughtless are dead already. Blessed are they who have insight into the deathless state. Those who torture the living will hardly find happiness after death. The unselfish go to heaven, where they rejoice in the bliss of infinite liberality and continue to increase in noble generosity. Every mortal who thinks righteously, speaks nobly, and acts unselfishly shall not only enjoy virtue here during this brief life but shall also, after the dissolution of the body, continue to enjoy the delights of heaven.”


    I was personally, as a young truth seeker, so profoundly pleased and moved by the UB’s embrace and incorporation and integration of the Eastern and Western philosophies and traditions. I heartily recommend another reading of Papers 92 and 94 and 131 for more on the Eastern religious philosophies derived from the Melchizedek Missionaries many centuries after Melchizedek and 6 centuries before Jesus. Please recall that Jesus was a very experienced caravanner who traveled East and spent endless hours and days in the camps of caravans learning about the people and beliefs of the world!!

    123:5.6 (1362.7) Next, in addition to his more formal schooling, Jesus began to make contact with human nature from the four quarters of the earth as men from many lands passed in and out of his father’s repair shop. When he grew older, he mingled freely with the caravans as they tarried near the spring for rest and nourishment. Being a fluent speaker of Greek, he had little trouble in conversing with the majority of the caravan travelers and conductors.

    123:5.7 (1362.8) Nazareth was a caravan way station and crossroads of travel and largely gentile in population; at the same time it was widely known as a center of liberal interpretation of Jewish traditional law. In Galilee the Jews mingled more freely with the gentiles than was their practice in Judea. And of all the cities of Galilee, the Jews of Nazareth were most liberal in their interpretation of the social restrictions based on the fears of contamination as a result of contact with the gentiles. And these conditions gave rise to the common saying in Jerusalem, “Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?”

    121:2.2 (1333.4) Many of the great highways joining the nations of antiquity passed through Palestine, which thus became the meeting place, or crossroads, of three continents. The travel, trade, and armies of Babylonia, Assyria, Egypt, Syria, Greece, Parthia, and Rome successively swept over Palestine. From time immemorial, many caravan routes from the Orient passed through some part of this region to the few good seaports of the eastern end of the Mediterranean, whence ships carried their cargoes to all the maritime Occident. And more than half of this caravan traffic passed through or near the little town of Nazareth in Galilee.

    123:1.6 (1357.3) It was midsummer of this same year that Joseph built a small workshop close to the village spring and near the caravan tarrying lot. After this he did very little carpenter work by the day. He had as associates two of his brothers and several other mechanics, whom he sent out to work while he remained at the shop making yokes and plows and doing other woodwork. He also did some work in leather and with rope and canvas. And Jesus, as he grew up, when not at school, spent his time about equally between helping his mother with home duties and watching his father work at the shop, meanwhile listening to the conversation and gossip of the caravan conductors and passengers from the four corners of the earth.

    123:5.13 (1364.1) From four directions Jesus could observe the caravan trains as they wended their way in and out of Nazareth, and to the south he could overlook the broad and fertile plain country of Esdraelon, stretching off toward Mount Gilboa and Samaria.

    124:3.3 (1370.1) Jesus spent considerable time at the caravan supply shop, and by conversing with the travelers from all parts of the world, he acquired a store of information about international affairs that was amazing, considering his age.

    134:1.6 (1484.3) About the time Jesus was preparing to leave Nazareth, the conductor of a large caravan which was passing through the city was taken violently ill, and Jesus, being a linguist, volunteered to take his place….

    134:2.3 (1484.7) Of all his world travels this Caspian Sea trip carried Jesus nearest to the Orient and enabled him to gain a better understanding of the Far-Eastern peoples. He made intimate and personal contact with every one of the surviving races of Urantia excepting the red. He equally enjoyed his personal ministry to each of these varied races and blended peoples, and all of them were receptive to the living truth which he brought them. The Europeans from the Far West and the Asiatics from the Far East alike gave attention to his words of hope and eternal life and were equally influenced by the life of loving service and spiritual ministry which he so graciously lived among them.

    134:2.4 (1485.1) The caravan trip was successful in every way. This was a most interesting episode in the human life of Jesus, for he functioned during this year in an executive capacity, being responsible for the material intrusted to his charge and for the safe conduct of the travelers making up the caravan party. And he most faithfully, efficiently, and wisely discharged his multiple duties.

    134:2.5 (1485.2) On the return from the Caspian region, Jesus gave up the direction of the caravan at Lake Urmia, where he tarried for slightly over two weeks. He returned as a passenger with a later caravan to Damascus, where the owners of the camels besought him to remain in their service. Declining this offer, he journeyed on with the caravan train to Capernaum, arriving the first of April, A.D. 25. No longer did he regard Nazareth as his home. Capernaum had become the home of Jesus, James, Mary, and Ruth. But Jesus never again lived with his family; when in Capernaum he made his home with the Zebedees.

    8. Taoism

    131:8.1 (1451.4) The messengers of Melchizedek penetrated far into China, and the doctrine of one God became a part of the earlier teachings of several Chinese religions; the one persisting the longest and containing most of the monotheistic truth was Taoism, and Ganid collected the following from the teachings of its founder:

    131:8.2 (1451.5) “How pure and tranquil is the Supreme One and yet how powerful and mighty, how deep and unfathomable! This God of heaven is the honored ancestor of all things. If you know the Eternal, you are enlightened and wise. If you know not the Eternal, then does ignorance manifest itself as evil, and thus do the passions of sin arise. This wondrous Being existed before the heavens and the earth were. He is truly spiritual; he stands alone and changes not. He is indeed the world’s mother, and all creation moves around him. This Great One imparts himself to men and thereby enables them to excel and to survive. Even if one has but a little knowledge, he can still walk in the ways of the Supreme; he can conform to the will of heaven.

    131:8.3 (1452.1) “All good works of true service come from the Supreme. All things depend on the Great Source for life. The Great Supreme seeks no credit for his bestowals. He is supreme in power, yet he remains hidden from our gaze. He unceasingly transmutes his attributes while perfecting his creatures. The heavenly Reason is slow and patient in his designs but sure of his accomplishments. The Supreme overspreads the universe and sustains it all. How great and mighty are his overflowing influence and drawing power! True goodness is like water in that it blesses everything and harms nothing. And like water, true goodness seeks the lowest places, even those levels which others avoid, and that is because it is akin to the Supreme. The Supreme creates all things, in nature nourishing them and in spirit perfecting them. And it is a mystery how the Supreme fosters, protects, and perfects the creature without compelling him. He guides and directs, but without self-assertion. He ministers progression, but without domination.

    131:8.4 (1452.2) “The wise man universalizes his heart. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Those who aspire to greatness must learn to humble themselves. In creation the Supreme became the world’s mother. To know one’s mother is to recognize one’s sonship. He is a wise man who regards all parts from the point of view of the whole. Relate yourself to every man as if you were in his place. Recompense injury with kindness. If you love people, they will draw near you—you will have no difficulty in winning them.

    131:8.5 (1452.3) “The Great Supreme is all-pervading; he is on the left hand and on the right; he supports all creation and indwells all true beings. You cannot find the Supreme, neither can you go to a place where he is not. If a man recognizes the evil of his ways and repents of sin from the heart, then may he seek forgiveness; he may escape the penalty; he may change calamity into blessing. The Supreme is the secure refuge for all creation; he is the guardian and savior of mankind. If you seek for him daily, you shall find him. Since he can forgive sins, he is indeed most precious to all men. Always remember that God does not reward man for what he does but for what he is; therefore should you extend help to your fellows without the thought of rewards. Do good without thought of benefit to the self.

    131:8.6 (1452.4) “They who know the laws of the Eternal are wise. Ignorance of the divine law is misery and disaster. They who know the laws of God are liberal minded. If you know the Eternal, even though your body perish, your soul shall survive in spirit service. You are truly wise when you recognize your insignificance. If you abide in the light of the Eternal, you shall enjoy the enlightenment of the Supreme. Those who dedicate their persons to the service of the Supreme are joyous in this pursuit of the Eternal. When man dies, the spirit begins to wing its long flight on the great home journey.”


    ;-)   Bradly


    Chaos or randomness is only a perception of reality….it is not real.

    An old Zen proverb:  Things are not as they appear…and neither are they different.

    The appearance of reality changes with knowledge, experience, and wisdom.  Reality is changeless but its appearance must constantly change if we have personal progress.  Appearance is a function of perspective which is formed by experiential wisdom attainment and knowledge gained over time. So appearance is always partial, incomplete, and limited by personal perception which is unique to each of us.

    And so things ARE TO US as they APPEAR TO US but only until we see more and better than before!  Then do we see more of reality.  And yet it remains true that things are still not as they appear, and neither are they, or can they be, different than they APPEAR.

    This is why humility should always accompany our opinions and our prejudice is so trite and dysfunctional.  To see, one must first look!  To hear is to listen!  To see and to hear is to discover!  Ommmm…..

    102:7.2 (1126.2) God is the one and only self-caused fact in the universe. He is the secret of the order, plan, and purpose of the whole creation of things and beings. The everywhere-changing universe is regulated and stabilized by absolutely unchanging laws, the habits of an unchanging God. The fact of God, the divine law, is changeless; the truth of God, his relation to the universe, is a relative revelation which is ever adaptable to the constantly evolving universe.

    111:6.6 (1222.5) Science is the source of facts, and mind cannot operate without facts. They are the building blocks in the construction of wisdom which are cemented together by life experience. Man can find the love of God without facts, and man can discover the laws of God without love, but man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy.

    111:6.7 (1222.6) The expansion of material knowledge permits a greater intellectual appreciation of the meanings of ideas and the values of ideals. A human being can find truth in his inner experience, but he needs a clear knowledge of facts to apply his personal discovery of truth to the ruthlessly practical demands of everyday life.

    111:6.8 (1222.7) It is only natural that mortal man should be harassed by feelings of insecurity as he views himself inextricably bound to nature while he possesses spiritual powers wholly transcendent to all things temporal and finite. Only religious confidence—living faith—can sustain man amid such difficult and perplexing problems.

    118:10.19 (1306.8) Providence becomes increasingly discernible as men reach upward from the material to the spiritual. The attainment of completed spiritual insight enables the ascending personality to detect harmony in what was theretofore chaos. Even morontia mota represents a real advance in this direction.

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