Adjutant intellect

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  • #34174
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    Mark Kurtz
    Participant

    Bonita,

    Thank you for your time and significant attempts at unraveling mysteries in the UB. The collection of insights and clarifications in the book may not be the revelators’ first attempts to help us understand, but surely it is marvelous additional aid. There is more to come for sure, most of which we will observe from the Mansion Worlds.

    The personality thread is very interesting: only personalities can recognize other personalities. Machines cannot, so persons can work together with mind oriented to curious investigation of mystery while imagining a desired result. Golly gee! Isn’t that fun! Lets learn more of value of persons and why we belong to an eternal team of other persons working on mysteries!!!!

     

     

    #34175
    André
    André
    Participant

    Bonita,

    I’ve decided following this thread to review my definition concerning the soul. Always looking for a whole new perspective.

    That’s saying something!

    Among readers of TUB “the whereabout” concerning the soul is still pervated with foggy definitions. Allowing more today than yesterday to search ” what we are looking to understand?”.

    TUB tell us:
    This immortal soul is at first wholly morontia in nature, but it possesses such a capacity for development that it invariably ascends to the true spirit levels of fusion value with the spirits of Deity, usually with the same spirit of the Universal Father that initiated such a creative phenomenon in the creature mind.” (1219.2) 111:3.3

    No suggestion here, it could be otherwise.

    This following quote you refered to might have corrolation with the following paragraph?

    To explain presence of the soul prior to arrival of T/A, you write this quote;

    42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being.

    This quote refered to a workout for a body legit for endowment of cosmic ministry.  111:2.10

    Here’s another quote wich can intervene before birth of the soul.

    The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.” (1478.4, 133:6.5)

    Could, maybee prior of birth of the soul be a gestation period ? Similar to birth of a child? Entirely handle as you said by consciousness [adjutants] of Creative Mother ? This gestation period enable foetus’s soul intelligence ?

    In all explanations you put to explain presence of the soul before T/A is this one which I see relevant.
    Must it be … supermind interchangeable definition of the soul ? YES …that is what I red keeping on reading.

    Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man.

    Frankly, I’ am exausted after putting pieces of puzzling new territory. My head is spinning, so …. be indulgent I have tried to assimilated yours threads.

    Thanks a lot, enjoy it much.

    André

    n.b. I feel more pro soul before arrival T/A. Just need to drive home the facts.

    #34176
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Hi André, thanks for taking the time to think about it.  I agree that it is exhausting.  I’ve spent years on it and I still don’t have it anywhere near nailed down.

    andré wrote:To explain presence of the soul prior to arrival of T/A, you write this quote; 42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being. This quote refered to a workout for a body legit for endowment of cosmic ministry.  111:2.10

    I was using 42:12.11 because I think it establishes that both the cosmic mind and the adjutant mind play a role in the development of the body, but does not mention personality as playing a role.  My only point is no matter where I look, TUB gives no clear indication as to when personality arrives in the period between conception and birth of the soul at age 5+.  All we know is that personality is gifted sometime before soul birth.

    The point I was trying to make with quote 111:2.9-10 is that the gradual spiritualization of the mind leading up to soul birth is assured by contact with certain superanimal and supermaterial realities. They include the adjutants, numbers six and seven, which are superanimal ministries and the personality which is  supermaterial.

    112:2.9 The possession of personality identifies man as a spiritual being since the unity of selfhood and the self-consciousness of personality are endowments of the supermaterial world.

    92:0.2 1. The adjutant of worship — the appearance in animal consciousness of superanimal potentials for reality perception. This might be termed the primordial human instinct for Deity.

    #34177
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    I think we will be left to take all the information they give and try to extrapolate personality birth and here’s a couple thoughts:

    Arent Archangels the personality record keepers, don’t they make records at the moment of birth?

    also isn’t it possible that personality existed prior to birth? I say this because we are told that children are personalized in probationary nursery at their resurrection even if they died at very early stage of development.

    This bestowal of personality comes from the Father, outside of time and space. It’s likely the authors of the revelation don’t really know exactly when it happens.

    #34179
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Arent Archangels the personality record keepers, don’t they make records at the moment of birth?

    The archangels keep a personality record from birth onwards but that does not give us any indication when personality is bestowed.  It merely means that records begin at birth. It does not indicate that personality begins at birth.  It’s probable that they record only the function of personality from birth onward.  There is very little for the personality to do in utero.

    37:3.7 The Worlds of the Archangels. The seventh group of the encircling Salvington worlds, with their associated satellites, is assigned to the archangels. Sphere number one and all of its six tributary satellites are occupied by the personality record keepers. This enormous corps of recorders busy themselves with keeping straight the record of each mortal of time from the moment of birth up through the universe career until such an individual either leaves Salvington for the superuniverse regime or is “blotted out of recorded existence” by the mandate of the Ancients of Days.

    I say this because we are told that children are personalized in probationary nursery at their resurrection even if they died at very early stage of development.

    I think it says if they die before they become individuals in their own right according to universe records, which I think means before they have souls, before the personality develops enough to enter the seventh psychic circle.  Before then they are individuals without individual status because they’re still attached to their parents.

    (531.5) 47:2.1 The infant-receiving schools of Satania are situated on the finaliter world, the first of the Jerusem transition-culture spheres. These infant-receiving schools are enterprises devoted to the nurture and training of the children of time, including those who have died on the evolutionary worlds of space before the acquirement of individual status on the universe records.

     

     

     

    #34180
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Great discussion.  I would think that the keeping of personality records from birth is a logical and very reasonable inference or evidence of the personality bestowal timing.

    #34181
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Here’s another quote wich can intervene before birth of the soul. “The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.” (1478.4, 133:6.5) Could, maybee prior of birth of the soul be a gestation period ? Similar to birth of a child? Entirely handle as you said by consciousness [adjutants] of Creative Mother ? This gestation period enable foetus’s soul intelligence ?

    I’m not sure if you’re saying that the fetus has a soul, but if you are I can tell you it does not have one.  I think the question is whether or not it has a personality with the potential for eventually giving birth to a soul.

    I do think there is a gestation period prior to the birth of the soul but I think it has to do with development of the personality’s ability to utilize the spirit of wisdom in elevating its thought toward making a spirit-worthy moral, or supermaterial, choice. TUB says that only supermaterial decisions make it to the soul, so the gestational period has to do with the personality learning how to recognize superanimal and supermaterial urges.  Certainly we have seen children prior to the age of 5+ make what seems like moral decisions and that is because the personality is intrinsically moral.

    112:0.11  9. It [personality] is characterized by morality – awareness of relativity of relationship with other persons. It discerns conduct levels and choosingly discriminates between them.

    (1219.1) 111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind.

    The personality is self-conscious, which must include the consciousness of personality other-than-self.  This sets up the moral dilemmas which face children during this gestational period. They seem to practice with their ability to identify moral choices according to their budding ideas of right and wrong. However, not all ideas of right and wrong rise to the level of spirit-worthiness. Morality is essentially superanimal and subspiritual. Once a child recognizes a moral value with spiritual potential and decides to act on it, a soul is born.  That event is simultaneous with entrance into the seventh psychic circle, meaning the psyche of the child has learned how to utilize the spirit of wisdom to reach up for higher supermaterial values, and this is the trigger for the divine spirit to reach down and co-create a morontia soul, the arena for further spiritual ministry.

    31:06  The higher concepts of universe personality imply: identity, self-consciousness, self-will and possibility for self-revelation. And these characteristics further imply fellowship with other and equal personalities, such as exists in the personality associations of the Paradise Deities.

    16:8.6 Self-consciousness consists in intellectual awareness of personality actuality; it includes the ability to recognize the reality of other personalities.

    16:9.4 Human self-consciousness implies the recognition of the reality of selves other than the conscious self and further implies that such awareness is mutual; that the self is known as it knows.

    The initial down reach of divine spirit is the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit must be present before the Adjuster can invade the soul, meaning there must be a soul before the Adjuster comes.  That being said, in our current post-Pentecost age, Adjusters do come simultaneously with the birth of the soul but they remain dependent upon the Holy Spirit to provide the place to come, the soul.  This is the distinction I’m trying to make.  Today Adjusters arrive simultaneous with soul birth, but that has not been the case for the entire time humans have walked the earth.

    65:7.7 The adjutants function exclusively in the evolution of experiencing mind up to the level of the sixth phase, the spirit of worship. At this level there occurs that inevitable overlapping of ministry — the phenomenon of the higher reaching down to co-ordinate with the lower in anticipation of subsequent attainment of advanced levels of development. And still additional spirit ministry accompanies the action of the seventh and last adjutant, the spirit of wisdom. Throughout the ministry of the spirit world the individual never experiences abrupt transitions of spirit co-operation; always are these changes gradual and reciprocal.

    108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. 

    So with all of that, if a personality is self-conscious and self-consciousness demands the awareness of selves other than oneself, is a fetus capable of such a thing?  Is there a difference in the case of multiple births where two or more fetuses share the same womb?  I don’t know.  It seems to me it could go both ways.  An undeveloped personality in-utero may not be self-aware yet have the potential for it.  Or it could be that personality has to wait until the capacity for self-consciousness is fully developed.  None of us really know.

     

     

    #34182
    André
    André
    Participant

    Hi,

    … no my inquiries “pro-birth”of the soul.Try to find an analogy (def: … a similarity between like features of two things, on wich a comparison may be based.)

     

    Humankind kingdom

    After fecondation there is a gestation period. This period follows a specific ordely sequences of development. This development is assured by the mother. When development is completed…. here is the time to be born.

    Divinekind kingdom

    Analogy push me to refered fecondation as the period when the mind connect with the 7 th adjutat.
    A gestation period for a morontia foetus begin. And during this period foetus manifest “soul intelligence” among others “specific orderly sequences”.This development is assured by our Cteative Mother. It will born, be suitable for it, only when ready.

    Is this reference give clue of participation of personnality?
    111:0.1 (1215.1) THE presence of the divine Adjuster in the human mind makes it forever impossible for either science or philosophy to attain a satisfactory comprehension of the evolving soul of the humanpersonality

    In english do you referred to foetus as a “it” or “he.

    I prudently, wisely push the analogy to not included the human gestation under Humankind kingdom because we are too immature for the moment. And as eugenic is a way not ready to discuss. Humankind need to mature before adress certains subjects.

    I drove facts home and carryingg them in alighted room (upper-room).

    André

    #34183
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Hi André.  Thanks for clarifying.  I think I understand now and I like your analogy.  TUB does refer to the soul as a kind of embryo at times.

    Is this reference give clue of participation of personnality? 111:0.1 (1215.1) THE presence of the divine Adjuster in the human mind makes it forever impossible for either science or philosophy to attain a satisfactory comprehension of the evolving soul of the human personality

    Absolutely.  The soul can’t be born and cannot grow without personality participation, and that’s where the analogy between the Humankind kingdom and the  Divinekind kingdom leave us with a giant question.  Is personality participation as essential to physical growth as it is to morontia growth?  TUB doesn’t tell us.

    What it does tell us is that the liaison of the adjutant and cosmic mind is sufficient to build a body, with no mention at all of personality playing a role.  I think it’s because no free will is involved in body production other than the free will of the two physical parents who initiate the process.  Perhaps that is why the child is attached to the parents until it enters the seventh psychic circle and has its own soul created by its own free will.

    In english do you referred to foetus as a “it” or “he.

    A fetus is generally neutral, an “it” until a sex is determined.   Also, the word fetus is used only after 8 weeks gestation, when a heartbeat is usually detected.  Prior to 8 weeks a fetus is called an embryo, also an “it”.

     

     

    #34185
    André
    André
    Participant

    G’day,

    So, one thing leading to another.

    “Specifics orderly sequences’s” growths responding to establish natural laws or the divine mandate.

    118:8.1 (1301.6) In the time-space creations, free will is hedged about with restraints, with limitations. Material-life evolution is first mechanical, then mind activated, and (after the bestowal of personality) it may become spirit directed. Organic evolution on the inhabited worlds is physically limited by the potentials of the original physical-life implantations of the Life Carriers.
    I presume without a satisfying conclusion trough science an philosophy, we can still progress and get contentment.

    André

    #34186
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I guess it depends on how you define contentment.

    At first evolution is mechanical, overseen by the Master Physical Controllers and there is no free will.  Then when evolution proceeds to the point where learning is possible and the adjutant mind spirits take over, there is still no free will.  (Incidentally, since there are no gaps in mind ministry, the first adjutant overlaps the Physical Controller mind ministering to the mechanical level of life.)  Finally, somewhere along the line personality gets bestowed and free will shows up and takes over control.  But they still don’t tell us when this happens other than after mind-activation by the adjutants.  Does this happen in-utero or later?  Clearly the adjutants do function in-utero because they tell us that the adjutants and the cosmic mind are the ones building the body.

    Anyway, restraints on free will don’t matter much unless there is personality with free will present to constrain.  I’m pretty sure free will is dependent upon self-consciousness as well as levels of mind consciousness. As soon as a material body develops consciousness, I think it’s a candidate for personality bestowal.

    Once personality arrives free will is dependent upon the level of consciousness.  Material mind offers only a material consciousness within which the personality can choose.  Once soul consciousness evolves, a personality has another level of consciousness from which to choose, and so, and so on, all the way to Paradise.

    I do think since the origin of personality is Paradise it will inherently attempt to unify its living system to align with Paradise within the scope of its own consciousness.  And I don’t think personality will be content until it finally reaches the Father of personalities on Paradise and has all its component parts of selfhood unified according to the elliptical symmetry of all reality centered on Paradise.  So contentment seems to be a relative term, just like free will.

     

    #34189
    samuel
    samuel
    Participant

    La consécration du choix implique à l’humain d’être fidèle, honnête et droit.

    Jésus notre modèle !

    Je suis heureux de retrouvé André et vous tous dans les multiples partages.

    Je ne parle pas Anglais et j’utilise le traducteur pour vous lire et communiqué.

    En unicité.

    Samuel


    The consecration of choice implies that the human being must be faithful, honest and upright.
    Jesus our model!
    I am happy to see André and all of you again in the multiple sharing.
    I do not speak English and I use the translator to read and communicate with you.
    In uniqueness.
    Samuel

     

     

    Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.

    #34190
    Avatar
    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Bonita wrote:

    … but they remain dependent upon the Holy Spirit to provide the place to come, the soul.  This is the distinction I’m trying to make.

    Hi Bonita,

    You got me wondering: should we distinguish between the “capacity” to make moral choices, and the “act of personality” actually making a moral choice?

    Recall that in 42:10.4, the author calls the Divine Minister’s adjutant level of consciousness “moral“,

    “2. Adjutant-spirit minds. This is the ministry of a local universe Mother Spirit functioning through her seven adjutant mind-spirits on the teachable (nonmechanical) level of material mind. On this level material mind is experiencing: as subhuman (animal) intellect in the first five adjutants; as human (moral) intellect in the seven adjutants; as superhuman (midwayer) intellect in the last two adjutants.” (481.1, 42:10.4)

    Since such Adjutant-sponsored “moral intellect” is distinct from our “soul“, and when we also consider her personal presence as Holy Spirit, it looks like the Divine Minister is providing both a location and a capacity for baby persons to experience the act of moral choice. Which might explain why they say it is the Adjuster who initiates the soul, once such choice has been wilfully made,

    “… although they cannot inhibit such a morontia phenomenon when once it has been initiated by the indwelling Adjuster with the consent of the creature will…” (1218.9 111:3.1)

    “… it possesses such a capacity for development that it invariably ascends to the true spirit levels of fusion value with the spirits of Deity, usually with the same spirit of the Universal Father that initiated such a creative phenomenon in the creature mind.” (1219.2, 111:3.3)

    This seems to be the heart of the matter: while we might just see a child “making a choice”, our Father in Paradise sees a brand new personal will, wilfully choosing to attempt to align with those “three inalienables of human consciousness” (195.7, 16:9.1), those “intuitions of validity”. This phenomenon is so special that the Adjuster (our Father) dares to spiritize the ideal (1112.3, 101:6.7) and to spiritualize the repercussions of the intent…

    and a priceless soul, “irreplaceable in all eternity” (138.4, 12:7.9) is born!

    Regarding the “imperfection” you mentioned of such souls; technically, perfect means “thoroughly made” (implicitly without flaw). As we know, our baby souls are the opposite of “thoroughly made”! Nevertheless, the few fibers that are in place were put there by the Author of reality  :good:

    Nigel

    #34191
    Avatar
    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Bonjour Samuel – merci de vous joindre à nous!

    Hello Samuel — thanks for joining in!

    Nigel

    #34192
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Since such Adjutant-sponsored “moral intellect” is distinct from our “soul“, and when we also consider her personal presence as Holy Spirit, it looks like the Divine Minister is providing both a location and a capacity for baby persons to experience the act of moral choice.

    The only problem with that is the Holy Spirit doesn’t arrive until after the first wholehearted personal moral choice.

    Morality is subspiritual, it’s purely human in nature so the first moral decision worthy of birthing a soul is a wise decision with spiritual potential. It’s the desire to fulfill the spiritual potential of a purely human/adjutant moral decision that brings spirit into the equation, the Holy Spirit.  The first wholehearted, personal moral decision is made by the adjutant mind, not the soul. The adjutant mind provides soil for conception of a soul.  It’s actual birth takes place in the welcoming hands of the Holy Spirit.

    196:3.25 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster’s inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight. The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment. 

    After the Holy Spirit arrives, the material adjutant mind is overlapped with another level of consciousness with which to begin the process of discovering, recognizing, interpreting and choosing supermaterial (superadjutant) morality, or truth.  The soul then begins its evolution process by making supermaterial decisions.  A personality cannot choose a supermaterial moral option without a supermaterial level of consciousness with which to think.  Soul evolution is dependent upon superadjutant mind ministry, the Holy Spirit. The Adjuster is not mind ministry.  The Adjuster is personality ministry which is accomplished by utilizing the medium of mind which is supplied by the Holy Spirit.  Therefore the Adjuster is powerless to do any adjusting without a mind to house the thoughts worthy of adjusting.

    111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind.

    Of course we know that in this current day and age the Adjuster arrives essentially simultaneous with the Holy Spirit.  But TUB clearly states that the Adjuster cannot invade the mind without the Holy Spirit being present.  It’s just not possible as I’ve tried to explain above. But how simultaneous these events actually are we don’t know, microseconds, nanoseconds?  It doesn’t matter.  Bottom line is: no Holy Spirit, no soul.  No soul, no Adjuster.

    108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit.

    Quote 111:3.1 is describing a soul, with an Adjuster, that has begun evolving.  It does not describe the actual birth of a soul.  It simply says the evolution, or growth, in that particular soul was initiated by the Adjuster.  Again quote 111:3.3 is referring to the soul’s capacity for development, not it’s capacity to exist in the first place. The capacity to exist in the first place was established by the united function of all seven adjutants which provided the wisdom to make a morally pregnant decision, followed by the arrival of a level of consciousness for that pregnant moral thought to give birth, the Holy Spirit.  The Adjuster then initiates the soul’s further development, or evolution, or growth, but not its birth.  And that is only in souls with Adjusters.  Pre-Pentecost, not all souls had Adjusters to initiate their evolution, or to initiate anything for that matter.  Yet souls were still born and  soul growth still happened, and it was all initiated and fostered by the Holy Spirit.

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