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  • #35604
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    PS: About “spiritual-gravity”, sited in Paper 9, Section 2, ten years ago Bonita made this insightful comment in the OPAD presentation:

    …I think the best way to explain it is by describing spirit gravity and how it functions in our lives. Spirit gravity is what we “feel” in the heart…

     

    And probably the soul too. From Paper 111, The Adjuster and the Soul, which includes mention of MIND:

    …Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality—values—is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes…. 111:3.6 (1219.5)

     

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    #35605
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Anyone care to comment on this perplexing statement? …The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone. What all can a unminded Spirit do?!

    In our local universe the Creative Daughter of the Third Person has a spiritual ministry that functions as both mind and spirit, known as the Holy Spirit. In our local universe the Creative Spirit also functions as herself as spirit alone, and all spirit is minded. There is no such thing as un-minded spirit.

    9:4,2 Mind does not have to be added to pure spirit, for spirit is innately conscious and identifying. Spirit is always intelligent, minded in some way. It may be this mind or that mind, it may be premind or supermind, even spirit mind, but it does the equivalent of thinking and knowing. The insight of spirit transcends, supervenes, and theoretically antedates the consciousness of mind.

    Yeah, evidently I didn’t interpret the quote properly: …The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.

    But still, why would the Divine Counselor say, “mind plus spirit” if spirit is already, ‘always minded in some way’?

    #35606
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    But still, why would the Divine Counselor say, “mind plus spirit” if spirit is already, ‘always minded in some way’?

    Because ministry to personality needs both mind and spirit personality.   Ministry to matter and non-personal life only needs a mind, the one that belongs to Spirit, as in mind over matter.

    #35607
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    But still, why would the Divine Counselor say, “mind plus spirit” if spirit is already, ‘always minded in some way’?

    Because ministry to personality needs both mind and spirit personality. Ministry to matter and non-personal life only needs a mind, the one that belongs to Spirit, as in mind over matter.

    Thank you. And thanks for being a fount of reliable fact and a keen teacher of fact and truth all these years on the Assoication’s Forum.  Your mind brings a trove of revealed and experiential understanding. You know it’s true ;-)  

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    #35608
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    3. The Universal Manipulator

    9:3.1 (101.1) The Isle of Paradise is the source and substance of physical gravity; and that should be sufficient to inform you that gravity is one of the most real and eternally dependable things in the whole physical universe of universes. Gravity cannot be modified or annulled except by the forces and energies conjointly sponsored by the Father and the Son, which have been intrusted to, and are functionally associated with, the person of the Third Source and Center.

    9:3.2 (101.2) The Infinite Spirit possesses a unique and amazing power — antigravity. This power is not functionally (observably) present in either the Father or the Son. This ability to withstand the pull of material gravity, inherent in the Third Source, is revealed in the personal reactions of the Conjoint Actor to certain phases of universe relationships. And this unique attribute is transmissible to certain of the higher personalities of the Infinite Spirit.

    9:3.3 (101.3) Antigravity can annul gravity within a local frame; it does so by the exercise of equal force presence. It operates only with reference to material gravity, and it is not the action of mind. The gravity-resistant phenomenon of a gyroscope is a fair illustration of the effect of antigravity but of no value to illustrate the cause of antigravity.

    9:3.4 (101.4) Still further does the Conjoint Actor display powers which can transcend force and neutralize energy. Such powers operate by slowing down energy to the point of materialization and by other techniques unknown to you.

    9:3.5 (101.5) The Conjoint Creator is not energy nor the source of energy nor the destiny of energy; he is the manipulator of energy. The Conjoint Creator is action—motion, change, modification, co-ordination, stabilization, and equilibrium. The energies subject to the direct or indirect control of Paradise are by nature responsive to the acts of the Third Source and Center and his manifold agencies.

    9:3.6 (101.6) The universe of universes is permeated by the power-control creatures of the Third Source and Center: physical controllers, power directors, power centers, and other representatives of the God of Action who have to do with the regulation and stabilization of physical energies. These unique creatures of physical function all possess varying attributes of power control, such as antigravity, which they utilize in their efforts to establish the physical equilibrium of the matter and energies of the grand universe.

    9:3.7 (101.7) All these material activities of the God of Action appear to relate his function to the Isle of Paradise, and indeed the agencies of power are all regardful of, even dependent on, the absoluteness of the eternal Isle. But the Conjoint Actor does not act for, or in response to, Paradise. He acts, personally, for the Father and the Son. Paradise is not a person. The nonpersonal, impersonal, and otherwise not personal doings of the Third Source and Center are all volitional acts of the Conjoint Actor himself; they are not reflections, derivations, or repercussions of anything or anybody.

    9:3.8 (101.8) Paradise is the pattern of infinity; the God of Action is the activator of that pattern. Paradise is the material fulcrum of infinity; the agencies of the Third Source and Center are the levers of intelligence which motivate the material level and inject spontaneity into the mechanism of the physical creation.

    #35609
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

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    So, the Universal Father put up guardrails around the right to refuse gravity. It’s a Trinity only prerogative:

    …Gravity cannot be modified or annulled except by the forces and energies conjointly sponsored by the Father and the Son, which have been intrusted to, and are functionally associated with, the person of the Third Source and Center.

    Angels have anti-gravity ability, being descendants of the Infinite Spirit. Reckon that’s why they make good transporters?

    Hey, the author gives us the formula for creating anti-gravity: “equal force balance”. Alright, glad we solved that (Nigel, help!).
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    A statement I made ten years ago on OPAD about gyroscopes still stands:
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    “…I couldn’t understand how this little toy had the power to ‘manipulate’ gravity any more than I understood how invisible magnetism could attract certain metals. The universe is full of divine wonders and things mysterious, obviously.”
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    Obviously, the greatest mystery, after God and personality, is MIND.
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    There’s (much) more revelation on Power in Paper 29:
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    29. The Universe Power Directors

    1. The Seven Supreme Power Directors
    2. The Supreme Power Centers(1) Supreme Center Supervisors(2) Havona Centers(3) Superuniverse Centers(4) Local Universe Centers(5) Constellation Centers(6) System Centers(7) Unclassified Centers

    3. The Domain of Power Centers
    4. The Master Physical Controllers(1) Associate Power Directors(2) Mechanical Controllers(3) Energy Transformers(4) Energy Transmitters(5) Primary Associators (6) Secondary Dissociators (7) The Frandalanks and The Chronoldeks
    5. The Master Force Organizers Primary Eventuated Master Force OrganizersAssociate Transcendental Master Force Organizers
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    Power distribution and direction is something most wouldn’t associate with divinity. It seems sort of non-spiritual, beneath divinity, no? The UB gave me new respect for power, it’s source, deployment, and manifold manifestations.
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    Anyone want take a stab at what doings are being referred to here:
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    …The nonpersonal, impersonal, and otherwise not personal doings of the Third Source and Center….
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    Pattern is another surprise topic in an ostensibly spiritual book. 
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    …the God of Action is the activator of that pattern.
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    Take this link for more on Pattern: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-42-energy-mind-and-matter#U42_12_0

    And finally, we know the source of spontaneity! Wish I could think of something to say… Here’s the line:
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    …the Third Source and Center are the levers of intelligence which motivate the material level and inject spontaneity into the mechanism of the physical creation.

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    #35610
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    So, the Universal Father put up guardrails around the right to refuse gravity. It’s a Trinity only prerogative: …Gravity cannot be modified or annulled except by the forces and energies conjointly sponsored by the Father and the Son, which have been intrusted to, and are functionally associated with, the person of the Third Source and Center.

    No wait!  Antigravity isn’t  a Trinity prerogative, antigravity is a unique feature of the Infinite Spirit, a power ” . . . not functionally (observably) present in either the Father or the Son.”  I’m thinking it has something to do with the fact that Third Source came into being in the presence of the Isle of Paradise.

    Angels have anti-gravity ability, being descendants of the Infinite Spirit. Reckon that’s why they make good transporters?

    I don’t remember reading that angels have antigravity ability.  I think they are able to utilize gravity for transportation, but they need help from other beings with antigravity ability to overcome the inertia of gravity.  Antigravity ability is ” . . .  transmissible to certain of the higher personalities of the Infinite Spirit.”  Those higher personalities (that I can find) are: Creative Daughter Spirits; Master Physical Controllers; Power Directors; Power Centers; Solitary Messengers; Circuit Supervisors; Census Directors; Personal Aids; Primary Associators; and Secondary Dissociators.  There may be others, don’t know.

    39:3.9 These transit personalities are so organized that they can simultaneously utilize all three of the universally distributed lines of energy, each having a clear space velocity of 186,280 miles per second. These transporters are thus able to superimpose velocity of energy upon velocity of power until they attain an average speed on their long journeys varying anywhere from 555,000 to almost 559,000 of your miles per second of your time. The velocity is affected by the mass and proximity of neighboring matter and by the strength and direction of the near-by main circuits of universe power. There are numerous types of beings, similar to the seraphim, who are able to traverse space, and who also are able to transport other beings who have been properly prepared.

    (326.1) 29:4.19 Of all the Master Physical Controllers assigned to the inhabited worlds, the mechanical controllers are by far the most powerful. Possessing the living endowment of antigravity in excess of all other beings, each controller has a gravity resistance equaled only by enormous spheres revolving at tremendous velocity. Ten of these controllers are now stationed on Urantia, and one of their most important planetary activities is to facilitate the departure of seraphic transports. In so functioning, all ten of the mechanical controllers act in unison while a battery of one thousand energy transmitters provides the initial momentum for the seraphic departure.

     

     

    #35611
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    No wait! Antigravity isn’t a Trinity prerogative, antigravity is a unique feature of the Infinite Spirit, a power ” . . . not functionally (observably) present in either the Father or the Son.” I’m thinking it has something to do with the fact that Third Source came into being in the presence of the Isle of Paradise.

    Ok, granted. Just seems like the three would share all powers (being Absolutes), and maybe only claim or use certain ones the other two don’t. The delegation thing.

    Angels have anti-gravity ability, being descendants of the Infinite Spirit. Reckon that’s why they make good transporters?

    I don’t remember reading that angels have antigravity ability. I think they are able to utilize gravity for transportation, but they need help from other beings with antigravity ability to overcome the inertia of gravity. Antigravity ability is ” . . . transmissible to certain of the higher personalities of the Infinite Spirit.” Those higher personalities (that I can find) are: Creative Daughter Spirits; Master Physical Controllers; Power Directors; Power Centers; Solitary Messengers; Circuit Supervisors; Census Directors; Personal Aids; Primary Associators; and Secondary Dissociators. There may be others, don’t know..

    Those are all I could find too. Evidently I tacked the antigrav label on the angels. Gonna cost me a mercy credit, I know it :-(  

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    #35612
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    4. The Absolute Mind

    9:4.1 (102.1) There is an intellectual nature of the Third Source and Center that is distinct from his physical and spiritual attributes. Such a nature is hardly contactable, but it is associable—intellectually though not personally. It is distinguishable from the physical attributes and the spiritual character of the Third Person on mind levels of function, but to the discernment of personalities this nature never functions independently of physical or spiritual manifestations.

    9:4.2 (102.2) The absolute mind is the mind of the Third Person; it is inseparable from the personality of God the Spirit. Mind, in functioning beings, is not separated from energy or spirit, or both. Mind is not inherent in energy; energy is receptive and responsive to mind; mind can be superimposed upon energy, but consciousness is not inherent in the purely material level. Mind does not have to be added to pure spirit, for spirit is innately conscious and identifying. Spirit is always intelligent, minded in some way. It may be this mind or that mind, it may be premind or supermind, even spirit mind, but it does the equivalent of thinking and knowing. The insight of spirit transcends, supervenes, and theoretically antedates the consciousness of mind.

    9:4.3 (102.3) The Conjoint Creator is absolute only in the domain of mind, in the realms of universal intelligence. The mind of the Third Source and Center is infinite; it utterly transcends the active and functioning mind circuits of the universe of universes. The mind endowment of the seven superuniverses is derived from the Seven Master Spirits, the primary personalities of the Conjoint Creator. These Master Spirits distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind, and your local universe is pervaded by the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind.

    9:4.4 (102.4) Infinite mind ignores time, ultimate mind transcends time, cosmic mind is conditioned by time. And so with space: The Infinite Mind is independent of space, but as descent is made from the infinite to the adjutant levels of mind, intellect must increasingly reckon with the fact and limitations of space.

    9:4.5 (102.5) Cosmic force responds to mind even as cosmic mind responds to spirit. Spirit is divine purpose, and spirit mind is divine purpose in action. Energy is thing, mind is meaning, spirit is value. Even in time and space, mind establishes those relative relationships between energy and spirit which are suggestive of mutual kinship in eternity.

    9:4.6 (102.6) Mind transmutes the values of spirit into the meanings of intellect; volition has power to bring the meanings of mind to fruit in both the material and spiritual domains. The Paradise ascent involves a relative and differential growth in spirit, mind, and energy. The personality is the unifier of these components of experiential individuality.

    #35613
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Anyone want take a stab at what doings are being referred to here: . …The nonpersonal, impersonal, and otherwise not personal doings of the Third Source and Center…. .

    The whole sentence:

    9:3.7 The nonpersonal, impersonal, and otherwise not personal doings of the Third Source and Center are all volitional acts of the Conjoint Actor himself; they are not reflections, derivations, or repercussions of anything or anybody.

    Boiled down to just the bones, I think what they’re saying is that the Conjoint Actor is not a reactor, but an actor.

    Pattern is another surprise topic in an ostensibly spiritual book.  . …the God of Action is the activator of that pattern.

    Ah heck.  Don’t push my buttons.  There are members of our community who believe TUB is a book of facts which have unfortunately become fetishes.  I prefer to think of it as a revelation of truth – always flexible and alive.

    But that aside, I think it’s really interesting that pattern has paid all its gravity debt and the antigravity Conjoint Actor activates it.  It’s like life.  Life is also pattern and mind, a ministry of the Conjoint Actor, activates it.   I’m wondering what would happen to life if it had not paid all it’s gravity debt and the antigravity Conjoint Actor tried to interact.  I don’t think it would work.  Just pondering.

    And finally, we know the source of spontaneity! Wish I could think of something to say… Here’s the line: . …the Third Source and Center are the levers of intelligence which motivate the material level and inject spontaneity into the mechanism of the physical creation.

    If there wasn’t spontaneity, wouldn’t the material level of reality be mostly mechanistic?

    42:11.7 Since mind co-ordinates the universe, fixity of mechanisms is nonexistent. The phenomenon of progressive evolution associated with cosmic self-maintenance is universal. The evolutionary capacity of the universe is inexhaustible in the infinity of spontaneity. Progress towards harmonious unity, a growing experiential synthesis superimposed on an ever-increasing complexity of relationships, could be effected only by a purposive and dominant mind.

     

    #35614
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

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    Physical attributes! How is it I’ve been studying this book 33 years and not noticed the revelation that one of the Trinity Gods has a physical nature!? Must be that invisible quote inserter’s work.

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    Wonder what associable means here? We can’t hug, but we can discuss universe philosophy?

    Such a nature is hardly contactable, but it is associable—intellectually though not personally.

     

    This is an intriguing sentence:

    …The insight of spirit transcends, supervenes, and theoretically antedates the consciousness of mind.

    But I’m not sure what exactly is intriguing, except that I get confused when comparing it to this, from the same paragraph:

    …Spirit is always intelligent, minded in some way.

     

     

    The Infinite Spirit down-steps his divinity beginning with the Seven Master Spirits, and ending with creatures like you and me. This attenuated Spirit crosses the gender line at some point in the down-step and become the feminine, as in our Mother Spirit, complement of Michael of Nebadon. But you knew that.

     

    Cosmic quote alert! Betcha we’ll be hearing this all the way to Paradise.

    Energy is thing, mind is meaning, spirit is value.

     

    One thing that ought to be mentioned in relation to the Infinite Spirit, regarding absoluteness. He is one of the Seven Absolutes of Infinity. Their first mentions are in the Foreword.

    But Paper 105 has another full Section on them, HERE, for when you’re ready to blow your mind :good:

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    #35615
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Those are all I could find too. Evidently I tacked the antigrav label on the angels. Gonna cost me a mercy credit, I know it

    Aw knock it off, you were just busted again, nothing cosmic going on here.  All I’m saying is I can’t remember reading that.  It could be hidden in Big Blue somewhere.  Factoids are always going missing in there donchyaknow?

    #35616
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Those are all I could find too. Evidently I tacked the antigrav label on the angels. Gonna cost me a mercy credit, I know it.

    Aw knock it off, you were just busted again, nothing cosmic going on here. All I’m saying is I can’t remember reading that. It could be hidden in Big Blue somewhere. Factoids are always going missing in there donchyaknow?


    Whew! Ok, thanks. Maybe I’ll comb the Angel Papers for anti-busted quotes.

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    #35617
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    Anyone want take a stab at what doings are being referred to here: . …The nonpersonal, impersonal, and otherwise not personal doings of the Third Source and Center…. .

    …Boiled down to just the bones, I think what they’re saying is that the Conjoint Actor is not a reactor, but an actor.

    Hmm…alright. I’m minded to mention that God is much more than love. Is the Infinite Spirit much more than mind?

    Pattern is another surprise topic in an ostensibly spiritual book. . …the God of Action is the activator of that pattern.

    Ah heck. Don’t push my buttons. There are members of our community who believe TUB is a book of facts which have unfortunately become fetishes. I prefer to think of it as a revelation of truth – always flexible and alive. But that aside, I think it’s really interesting that pattern has paid all its gravity debt and the antigravity Conjoint Actor activates it. It’s like life. Life is also pattern and mind, a ministry of the Conjoint Actor, activates it. I’m wondering what would happen to life if it had not paid all it’s gravity debt and the antigravity Conjoint Actor tried to interact. I don’t think it would work. Just pondering.

    Yeah, maybe unpaid debt would manifest as Original Sin :O

    And finally, we know the source of spontaneity! Wish I could think of something to say… Here’s the line: . …the Third Source and Center are the levers of intelligence which motivate the material level and inject spontaneity into the mechanism of the physical creation.

    If there wasn’t spontaneity, wouldn’t the material level of reality be mostly mechanistic?

    Yep, don’t see any way around it. So, do you think spontaneity requires ignorance of cosmic reality?

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    #35618
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    5. The Ministry of Mind

    9:5.1 (102.7) The Third Source and Center is infinite in mind. If the universe should grow to infinity, still his mind potential would be adequate to endow limitless numbers of creatures with suitable minds and other prerequisites of intellect.

    9:5.2 (102.8) In the domain of created mind the Third Person, with his co-ordinate and subordinate associates, rules supreme. The realms of creature mind are of exclusive origin in the Third Source and Center; he is the bestower of mind. Even the Father fragments find it impossible to indwell the minds of men until the way has been properly prepared for them by the mind action and spiritual function of the Infinite Spirit.

    9:5.3 (103.1) The unique feature of mind is that it can be bestowed upon such a wide range of life. Through his creative and creature associates the Third Source and Center ministers to all minds on all spheres. He ministers to human and subhuman intellect through the adjutants of the local universes and, through the agency of the physical controllers, ministers even to the lowest nonexperiencing entities of the most primitive types of living things. And always is the direction of mind a ministry of mind-spirit or mind-energy personalities.

    9:5.4 (103.2) Since the Third Person of Deity is the source of mind, it is quite natural that the evolutionary will creatures find it easier to form comprehensible concepts of the Infinite Spirit than they do of either the Eternal Son or the Universal Father. The reality of the Conjoint Creator is disclosed imperfectly in the very existence of human mind. The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

    9:5.5 (103.3) Because the Third Person is the source of mind, do not presume to reckon that all phenomena of mind are divine. Human intellect is rooted in the material origin of the animal races. Universe intelligence is no more a true revelation of God who is mind than is physical nature a true revelation of the beauty and harmony of Paradise. Perfection is in nature, but nature is not perfect. The Conjoint Creator is the source of mind, but mind is not the Conjoint Creator.

    9:5.6 (103.4) Mind, on Urantia, is a compromise between the essence of thought perfection and the evolving mentality of your immature human nature. The plan for your intellectual evolution is, indeed, one of sublime perfection, but you are far short of that divine goal as you function in the tabernacles of the flesh. Mind is truly of divine origin, and it does have a divine destiny, but your mortal minds are not yet of divine dignity.

    9:5.7 (103.5) Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness; you subject them to animal fear and distort them by useless anxiety. Therefore, though the source of mind is divine, mind as you know it on your world of ascension can hardly become the object of great admiration, much less of adoration or worship. The contemplation of the immature and inactive human intellect should lead only to reactions of humility.

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