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  • #31082
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Think of this as the day “Yehudi” (Intuition) could stop with the “triangle”, and truly strut his stuff. In other words, not only can the Spirit of Intuition animate an amoeba, once mobilized for service in human mind, she becomes our first taste of those three “Cosmic Intuitions“, the power behind all our future systems of mind.

    I’ve been thinking about this statement of yours for days, and to be fair, I may be misinterpreting you, but it sounds to me as if you’re saying in humans the first adjutant directly participates in the cosmic mind reality responses.  I hope you know that it doesn’t work that way.  The lower adjutants are not involved and the higher adjutants are only indirectly involved. Reality recognition is an experience of the personality in the soul.  I’m in the process of writing a ridiculously long essay on the subject but began to think that perhaps I’m wasting my time.  Is this a topic on which you’d like to know my thoughts?

     

    #31083
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Regarding what I called “personalization of Adjusters by the human technique”, if anyone has a more perfect way to describe this eventually existential adjustment of Adjusters, please let us know!

    TUB authors already gave us their best description – fusion – explained rather well in the quotes below (among others):

    101.6.6  With man, the eventual fusion and resultant oneness with the indwelling Adjuster — the personality synthesis of man and the essence of God — constitute him, in potential, a living part of the Supreme and insure for such a onetime mortal being the eternal birthright of the endless pursuit of finality of universe service for and with the Supreme.

    107:2.7 6. Fused Adjusters—finaliters—those who have become one with the ascending creatures of the superuniverses, the eternity partners of the time ascenders of the Paradise Corps of the Finality. Thought Adjusters ordinarily become fused with the ascending mortals of time, and with such surviving mortals they are registered in and out of Ascendington; they follow the course of ascendant beings. Upon fusion with the ascending evolutionary soul, it appears that the Adjuster translates from the absolute existential level of the universe to the finite experiential level of functional association with an ascending personality. While retaining all of the character of the existential divine nature, a fused Adjuster becomes indissolubly linked with the ascending career of a surviving mortal.

    #31140
    Avatar
    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Hi Bonita (sorry for the delay, been away for a week with no connection)

    Bonita wrote:

    “The way you have presented the metaphor is to suggest that the first adjutant suddenly morphs into a brand new role, more or less usurping the roles played by the other adjutants. My understanding is that once a first adjutant, always a first adjutant. There is no morphing, but there is evolving, but presumably each adjutant can only evolve so far. Otherwise it would morph into a a different adjutant altogether, stepping on the toes of its fellows.”

    Regarding the purpose and capacity of the Divine Minister’s “Spirit of Intuition”, I do not see this level of her consciousness as “morphing”. Rather, once the human level is reached, this level of her consciousness becomes free (“mobilizes“) to function at full capacity.

    Regarding my reference to many a strange “ism…” (110:4.5), I was suggesting that subconscious psychological upwellings — as well as superconscious leakage — might serve to provoke weird beliefs.

    Bonita wrote:

    “I may be misinterpreting you, but it sounds to me as if you’re saying in humans the first adjutant directly participates in the cosmic mind reality responses. I hope you know that it doesn’t work that way.”

    What I wanted to suggest is that, due to the truly integrated nature of the Divine Minister, her “adjutant” level of ministry adapts to fill the capacity of the creatures engaging this level of her consciousness (36:5.4). Thus (again with the speculation) I envisage a continuum of intuitive reality recognition, stretching from the intuitions made accessible by the cosmic mind, all the way down to the Divine Minister’s “Spirit of Intuition”. In other words, a seamless ministry, first nudging (via adjutant urge) then deliciously and irresistibly luring ascendant persons towards at-one-ment with our First Source and personal Center. All along the way, this essential capacity — to discriminate fact from fantasy — is made accessible.

    Bonita wrote:

    “Reality recognition is an experience of the personality in the soul.”

    As you might have noticed, I’m thinking of “reality recognition” as an experience of the person — in whatever system that person finds themselves. Thus even within those initial rhythmic adjutant pulsations, this temporary, adjutant emulation of “mind” makes it possible for us to recognize reality.

    Regarding personalization of Adjusters, Bonita wrote:

    “TUB authors already gave us their best description — fusion — explained rather well in the quotes below (among others):”

    Indeed! It’s precisely this fusion — between your personality and your fragment of the Father — that I feel qualifies as “personalization”. To distinguish this mode of personalization from that other mode (mentioned explicitly by the UB authors), I like to call this alternate, long and winding mode, “personalization of Adjusters by the human technique“.

    Which would imply a range of ways by which such Father fragments can engage (become one with) the Father’s personality circuit.

    Also, as those quotes (101:6.6, 107:2.7) make clear, taking the “human” route allows for such fused beings perfectly to integrate with the so-called “Supreme” level. Such integration appears to be advantageous for our post-grand universe careers.

    What do you think?

    Nigel

    #31141
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Regarding the purpose and capacity of the Divine Minister’s “Spirit of Intuition”, I do not see this level of her consciousness as “morphing”. Rather, once the human level is reached, this level of her consciousness becomes free (“mobilizes“) to function at full capacity.

    What is the first adjutant’s full capacity?  Is it described somewhere in TUB?  What’s the difference between full capacity and partial capacity? Is that described anywhere in TUB?   Is the first adjutant not free in animals or in children prior to their entering the seventh circle?  If it is not free, how is it encumbered?  What exactly are its limits – the limits which are suddenly lifted after entering the seventh psychic circle?

    Also, are you suggesting that the authors used the word mobilize to mean free-up or move.  Or is it possible that they used the word mobilize to mean organize for a specific goal? The word does have more than one meaning.

    #31155
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    What I wanted to suggest is that, due to the truly integrated nature of the Divine Minister, her “adjutant” level of ministry adapts to fill the capacity of the creatures engaging this level of her consciousness (36:5.4).

    Yes each adjutant evolves according to the capacity of the physical energy-life system, by they cannot take over the role of other adjutants. The spirit of intuition, known as the spirit of quick perception, cannot adapt in order to fill the role of the spirit of understanding, known as the spirit of quick reasoning.  Number one perceives and reflexively reacts; number two is responsible for coordinating and associating those perceptions then acting upon those conclusions.

    Recall that the adjutants are not directly related to the Holy Spirit.  They may be a level of consciousness of the Creative Spirit, but they are not part of the Holy Spirit level of her consciousness.(36:5.16) In other words, they don’t mix together. These are ascending levels of consciousness, like layers of a wedding cake, each layer distinguishable from the other but coordinated and mobilized to function as one unit.

    36:5.16   The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.

    #31158
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Thus (again with the speculation) I envisage a continuum of intuitive reality recognition, stretching from the intuitions made accessible by the cosmic mind, all the way down to the Divine Minister’s “Spirit of Intuition”.

    So you’re saying that the “mobilized” first adjutant is capable of reality recognition? That it’s ministry changes to include reflective, self-conscious thinking? That it begins to participate in self-revelation?  Where is that described in TUB?  I get the impression that you believe there is no difference between adjutant mind ministry and cosmic mind ministry, that in the human being they both merge into one omnifunctional mind with the various ministries able to transcend all levels of consciousness as needed.

    If that is true, what role would the first adjutant play in reality recognition? Do you think the “mobilized” first adjutant is able to permeate the spiritual realm of the Divine Minister?  Do you think the “mobilized” first adjutant is capable of functioning within the realm of the Holy Spirit, the soul? Does the “mobilized” first adjutant directly resonate in the Supreme?

    Also, if there is a continuum of functioning intuition all connected top to bottom, and not perceptively different from one another, why does TUB go through all the trouble of describing three distinctly different reality responses and how they can be balanced or unbalanced. If they’re all on the same continuum, they couldn’t become unbalanced, but would just slide along as the need arises at different levels, sometimes up and sometimes down.  With three separate intuitions, there is quite a necessity for maintaining balance since all three legs of the stool are required for stability, otherwise you fall flat on your ass.   Just trying to get a handle on how your scaffolding is built.

     

     

    #31159
    Avatar
    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Bonita wrote:

    “So you’re saying that the “mobilized” first adjutant is capable of reality recognition?”

    Not quite. More like “reality discovery” (see below).

    Bonita continued:

    “[…] That it’s ministry changes to include reflective, self-conscious thinking? That it begins to participate in self-revelation? Where is that described in TUB? I get the impression that you believe there is no difference between adjutant mind ministry and cosmic mind ministry, that in the human being they both merge into one omnifunctional mind with the various ministries able to transcend all levels of consciousness as needed.”

    Goodness me, not at all!  Not sure how you extracted such a misunderstanding.  Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs (post-31158) appear to be an excellent argument for knocking down that extraordinary straw man (i.e. deeply wrong impression).

    I’ll try to clarify. Regarding my comment about the Adjutants being “more free to function” once mobilized as human mind:

    As I understand it, when animating animals, the first 5 adjutant circuits are limited to motivating those behaviors necessary for evolution to unfold those “life plans” enabled by the Life Carriers.

    However, when serving as human mind, when those rhythmically pulsating circuits are orchestrated by wisdom and amplified by those gifts we each receive as post-Pentacost humans (spiritual intuition, soul intelligence, wisdom of spirit realities, 101:3.2), those “adjutant circuits” can at last function as “Seven Adjutant Mind Spirits“.

    No longer camouflaged as a technique of animal motivation, they stand revealed as a level of consciousness of the very One mediating our first few systems of mind.  Think “phase change”, like {ice, water, steam}. Same water, different manifestation.

    Also, notice the difference in flavor between, on the one hand, {Intuition, Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom}, and on the other, {Counsel, Courage, Worship}. The first set seem tuned more for facilitating objective awareness, while the second set seem tuned more for inspiring social and subjective aspects of human life.

    To me, this suggests a connection with the “primary” and “secondary” Sangiks (as we’ve explored elsewhere).

    Also, notice how neatly that more objective set {Intuition, Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom} lines up with that fact revealed in 196:3.10,

    (2094.9, 196:3.10) “[…] Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.”

    Think how the “Spirit of Intuition” enables us instantly to see the state of things (discover), how the “Spirit of Knowledge” enables us to align such observation with known facts (recognize), how the “Spirit of Understanding” makes it possible for us to understand how those facts fit together (interpret), and how the “Spirit of Wisdom” enables us to integrate all the above, making it possible for us to choose wisely.

    Does that help to clarify?

    Nigel

    #31160
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    However, when serving as human mind, when those rhythmically pulsating circuits are orchestrated by wisdom and amplified by those gifts we each receive as post-Pentacost humans (spiritual intuition, soul intelligence, wisdom of spirit realities, 101:3.2), those “adjutant circuits” can at last function as “Seven Adjutant Mind Spirits“. No longer camouflaged as a technique of animal motivation, they stand revealed as a level of consciousness of the very One mediating our first few systems of mind.  Think “phase change”, like {ice, water, steam}. Same water, different manifestation.

    Wait, wait.  Back up a sec.  What exactly happens again?  The adjutants phase change?  Isn’t that the same as morphing?  You told me you didn’t mean that.  What’s the difference?  And what do you mean by the adjutants being previously camouflaged? I’ve never read anything about that. What would be the purpose of it?  And what’s this about new revelations about the Divine Minister’s consciousness levels with the phase-shift?  It’s all so cinematic!  Are you trying to say that entrance into the seventh psychic circle opens the door to something new and exciting?  I say yeah to that, it’s called the soul – a new mind with NO adjutants.

    Anyway, so tell me in more detail how the seven adjutants, once they start acting as one entity, reveal themselves as a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister.  Is this part of the camouflaging thing, where once they were concealed and when “mobilized” are revealed?  Who are the benefactors of this revelation, humans?  Personally, I’ve never experienced such a thing.  And what about the Holy Spirit?  Where does that fit into all of this?  Where exactly is the soul in this drama?  I’ll tell you this, it’s not in your root chakra which has been phase changed into a new kind of objective intuition – just teasing you – no really, I am.

    Also, notice the difference in flavor between, on the one hand, {Intuition, Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom}, and on the other, {Counsel, Courage, Worship}. The first set seem tuned more for facilitating objective awareness, while the second set seem tuned more for inspiring social and subjective aspects of human life.

    I’m still lost. Where are you getting those groupings from?  Are you saying that adjutants one, two, four, and seven are objective mind ministers and adjutants three, five and six are subjective adjutants? Is that before or after morphing? or phase-shifting?  I can’t find any reference in TUB to support your ideas.  Can you offer any?  Also, I thought the word intuition is essentially defined as a subjective perceptual instinct which bypasses all reasoning, so what makes you think it’s objective?  And how does all this relate to the three cosmic reality responses?  Where do they fit in? Aren’t they the providers of real objective validity?  No seriously, this paragraph of yours is melting my mind.

    Think how the “Spirit of Intuition” enables us instantly to see the state of things (discover), how the “Spirit of Knowledge” enables us to align such observation with known facts (recognize), how the “Spirit of Understanding” makes it possible for us to understand how those facts fit together (interpret), and how the “Spirit of Wisdom” enables us to integrate all the above, making it possible for us to choose wisely.

    Yes, that’s how the material level adjutant mind works, but we fortunately have a supermaterial mind too, and you forgot to mention what happens next. Quote 196:3.10 is not about the adjutant mind, it’s about spiritual insight.  Discovery may begin on the material level of mind ministry with the two higher adjutants, but recognition, interpretation and choosing goes beyond the adjutants if they’re worth their salt.  Recognition requires the cosmic mind reality responses; interpretation requires the Spirit of Truth; choosing requires Adjuster guided self-revelation which enlightens the personality to “see into” God’s will.

    I think you’re conflating the two minds (the dual nature), and I also think you’re conflating wisdom with spiritual insight. They’re not the same thing. Spiritual insight is a gift but wisdom must evolve, it’s earned. (101:4.2)  I provided the quote again below, which if you read in context, becomes more obviously about spiritual insight, not adjutant insight.  Spiritual meanings are discerned within the soul with the help of the soul philosopher, the Spirit of Truth.

    196:3.10 The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.

    101:4.2  While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

    I still get the impression that you view this as one giant megamind melding and phase-shifting within the overall consciousness of the Divine Minister.  I have to stress that there are two individualized and very distinct minds in every bona fide human being.  They do have limited overlapping functions, but that is because there are no mind-gaps in mind ministry.  But, once all our bags are packed and permanently moved into the higher mind, we’re outa here, literally phase shifted, leaving the adjutants in the rear-view mirror, just the way they were originally.

    I guess you can tell that nothing’s been clarified.  Actually more confused than ever about your thought scaffolding.  Sorry.

    #31169
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    As you might have noticed, I’m thinking of “reality recognition” as an experience of the person — in whatever system that person finds themselves. Thus even within those initial rhythmic adjutant pulsations, this temporary, adjutant emulation of “mind” makes it possible for us to recognize reality.

    Are you saying that each of the adjutants are capable of recognizing reality or do you mean collectively? And, don’t all normal minded persons find themselves with two systems?  I’d love to see a quote that describes an adjutant responsible for reality recognition.  I’ve put all sorts of combinations of words in the search engine and come up dry. So if you have any quotes could you please produce them?  I just don’t see reality recognition as a description for any of the adjutants anywhere at anytime.  I think they’re only used as a starting point, a data gathering and processing step prior to reality recognition in the soul, which has contact with the mind of the cosmos.

    I think what you really mean is that we become conscious of having recognized reality in our material adjutant mind, but the actual recognition happens in the soul mind because it requires a cosmic level of thinking, or problem solving. Cosmic consciousness is something we can only sense while in the flesh, or until progressing to the highest psychic circles.  It’s that “feeling of reality” mentioned in 102:3.12.  Although we are capable of thinking with both minds, we are mostly conscious of thought occurring in the adjutant material mind as explained in 103:6.6.  That doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of higher thought, it means we’re not always conscious of it.  It also doesn’t mean that the reality reflex is part of the adjutant mind; it simply means we become aware in our adjutant mind of having encountered the feeling of reality.  But that encounter actually happened in the soul.

    In regards to reality, the goal of adjutant mind thinking is unity.  In order for that to happen all three cosmic reality levels have to become harmonized, and this simply cannot happen without soul involvement.  The adjutants may be a part of the cosmic mind, they exist under the umbrella term, but they do not possess all the cosmic mind functions.  However, the soul, because of the presence of the Holy Spirit, is in direct contact with the cosmic mind of the local universe, which is why reflective thinking is so critical in contacting the reality responses which are innate in the cosmic mind.  They have to be developed by self-conscious reflective cosmic thinking.  I guess the issue is whether or not the adjutants are capable of cosmic thinking.  I think 112:2.11 explains how it all works.

    16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

    102:3.12 The pursuit of knowledge constitutes science; the search for wisdom is philosophy; the love for God is religion; the hunger for truth is a revelation. But it is the indwelling Thought Adjuster that attaches the feeling of reality to man’s spiritual insight into the cosmos.

    103:6.6 Always must man’s inner spirit depend for its expression and self-realization upon the mechanism and technique of the mind. Likewise must man’s outer experience of material reality be predicated on the mind consciousness of the experiencing personality. Therefore are the spiritual and the material, the inner and the outer, human experiences always correlated with the mind function and conditioned, as to their conscious realization, by the mind activity. Man experiences matter in his mind; he experiences spiritual reality in the soul but becomes conscious of this experience in his mind. The intellect is the harmonizer and the ever-present conditioner and qualifier of the sum total of mortal experience. Both energy-things and spirit values are colored by their interpretation through the mind media of consciousness.

    112:2.11 As mind pursues reality to its ultimate analysis, matter vanishes to the material senses but may still remain real to mind. When spiritual insight pursues that reality which remains after the disappearance of matter and pursues it to an ultimate analysis, it vanishes to mind, but the insight of spirit can still perceive cosmic realities and supreme values of a spiritual nature. Accordingly does science give way to philosophy, while philosophy must surrender to the conclusions inherent in genuine spiritual experience. Thinking surrenders to wisdom, and wisdom is lost in enlightened and reflective worship.

     

     

     

    #31170
    Avatar
    Nigel Nunn
    Participant

    Hi Bonita,

    Sorry to have confused you further. I’ll leave you to reflect on those (apparently) unfamiliar thoughts for a while.

    Regarding your question, “What’s the difference?“, let’s bring back our friend Yehudi Menuhin. Try to picture him stuck in a kindergarten, required to teach music to 5 year olds. In this situation, tinkling an array of little triangles may be just the thing. But as those children grow up, little by little he can unfold the joys and beauty of music. Same Yehudi, different manifestation. No “morphing” required.

    Likewise the adjutant level of consciousness of the Diving Minister. When serving as mind for savages, how much can she do?  But in those pockets of high civilization dotting our 21st century world, her Counsel, Courage, Understanding, etc. can truly illuminate, in their distinct and characteristic ways.

    Regarding your attempted “word searches”, maybe time for less searching, and more of that reflective thinking?

    thanks for the chance to explore and reconsider all my assumptions. So rare to find anyone with enough interest and background to discuss such things.  :-)

    Nigel

    #31171
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Regarding your attempted “word searches”, maybe time for less searching, and more of that reflective thinking?

    Okay.  Sounds good.  Take as much time as you need.  I have several posts already written but I’ll hold back from sharing my reflective thinking on the subject while you take a rest.  Very much enjoyed the discussion.  Thanks.

     

    #32553
    Avatar
    Gene
    Participant

    This thread is a book in itself

    this quote has captured my attention:

    9:4) 36:3.2 The corps of Life Carriers commissioned to plant life upon a new world usually consists of one hundred senior carriers, one hundred assistants, and one thousand custodians. The Life Carriers often carry actual life plasm to a new world, but not always. They sometimes organize the life patterns after arriving on the planet of assignment in accordance with formulas previously approved for a new adventure in life establishment. Such was the origin of the planetary life of Urantia.

    if the life carriers actually carry actual life plasm that implies they do the carrying and saraphic transport is avoided.

    i think saraphic transport is avoided because we are told that anything ensaraphamed is changed or altered. (Pardon my misspelling)

    so on the long voyage to a planet in Nebadon from their world, what was the mode of transport???

    let me guess: an intergalactic spaceship that can travel at least as fast as saraphic transporters.

    What do you think?

    #35656
    Rick Warren
    Rick Warren
    Participant

    This thread is a book in itself this quote has captured my attention: 9:4) 36:3.2 The corps of Life Carriers commissioned to plant life upon a new world usually consists of one hundred senior carriers, one hundred assistants, and one thousand custodians. The Life Carriers often carry actual life plasm to a new world, but not always. They sometimes organize the life patterns after arriving on the planet of assignment in accordance with formulas previously approved for a new adventure in life establishment. Such was the origin of the planetary life of Urantia.

    if the life carriers actually carry actual life plasm that implies they do the carrying and saraphic transport is avoided. i think saraphic transport is avoided because we are told that anything ensaraphamed is changed or altered. (Pardon my misspelling) so on the long voyage to a planet in Nebadon from their world, what was the mode of transport??? let me guess: an intergalactic spaceship that can travel at least as fast as saraphic transporters. What do you think?

    That’s a good question. And recall the ‘shrub of Edentia’ was physical/material. Maybe they planned way ahead and transported them by sub-light speed ‘spaceships’ over a gillion years, woo, woo.

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