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Seems to me that I did remember what you said and I’m still wondering why you’re denying that you said it?
I am not denying what I said; I was just waiting for you to finally figure out what “intentionally obtuse” means. Eventually you did.
It is really so rich that you take such great umbrage at this mild criticism. I mean, you thought nothing of denouncing as “Luciferian” those who may not believe that almost everyone survives. You and Bradly both have felt justified in calling others Luciferian, beyond evil/error, sinful, and iniquitous. And when given opportunities to soften or amend these accusations, you have steadfastly refused. Did you consider, for even a moment, that others here might feel falsely accused when you charged them with being the disciples of Lucifer and the embracers of wickedness and sin? Do you understand the true meaning of these accusations?
In fact, it seems that it is really just the two of you who are going around calling others “the spawn of the devil.” Can you understand the significance of the fact that those you have viciously attacked in this way have not immediately spun around and hurled the same accusations back at you? Can you begin to appreciate their forbearance, their willingness to turn the other cheek when unjustly accused?
You and Bradly both have felt justified in calling others Luciferian, beyond evil/error, sinful, and iniquitous.
No we didn’t do that. At least I didn’t. Here’s what I said:
Bonita wrote:Brilliant observation Bradly. The idea that the ascension plan is faulty, that it fails to save large numbers of God’s creatures, is rather Luciferian in my opinion. So is the pride of spiritual superiority.Note that I said, “THE IDEA” is Luciferian. No person was mentioned or implied. If you took personal offense then I think that is your problem for not reading what I wrote correctly.In fact, it seems that it is really just the two of you who are going around calling others “the spawn of the devil.”
I think you ought to back up that claim if you’re going to make it. I’d like to see a direct quote where I called you such a thing. I know you won’t find it, so I would like an apology for being falsely accused. Bearing false witness against another personality is very serious. I think it’s one of those commandments that go back thousands and thousands of years.
Can you understand the significance of the fact that those you have viciously attacked in this way have not immediately spun around and hurled the same accusations back at you?
Well, what I understand is that you are viciously attacking me right now. You’re making untrue accusations against an innocent person. And that can’t be good for you. It looks to me like you may have lost your temper over something I never wrote.
Yeah but here’s the problem. The Spirit of Truth is playing his role.
(48:7.30) 28. The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained.One other thing that keeps running through my brain on this topic: The number of people who will quit.
Over and over we read the words or the reference to, ‘if you don’t reject.’ Have you considered the idea that ascension might be akin to Navy Seal training here on Urantia? The drop out rate is high (60%). It’s going to be tough, maybe even tougher than Seal training, notwithstanding the fact that half the time is recreational. We will have to face every shortcoming, every imperfection, and do so over billions of years.
…And you will sometime meet these noble beings face to face if you do not reject the certain and all-perfected plan designed to effect your survival and ascension…. 24:6.9 (270.7)
…If you do not reject this spirit, even though eternity may be required to fulfill the commission, “he will guide you into all truth.” 34:7.1 (382.1)
…Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival…. 30:4.15 (341.5)
***
Richard E Warren
And here’s something to add to it Rick, that if you do finally reject, there won’t be a second chance.
(112:5.9) This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.Over and over we read the words or the reference to, ‘if you don’t reject.’
I think that’s simply a reference to free will and how important it is. We must want to love our Father in order to have the opportunity to be with him in eternity. No one is coercing us to keep the great circuit of love going. But, if love does not bring a person joy, then by all means, they have the freedom to leave. The only problem is, there’s nowhere to go, and that’s why it’s a final decision.
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I would like an apology for being falsely accused.
Your response to having someone point out that you and Bradly are unjustly accusing others is to immediately spin about and hurl the same accusation back at the one who points it out. How predictable. This is such a common defensive reaction, to deflect attention away from the ego by going on the moral attack. But is it a spiritual reaction?
They who would receive mercy must show mercy; judge not that you be not judged. With the spirit with which you judge others you also shall be judged. (146:2.6)
But is it a spiritual reaction?
I forgive you for your willful attacks on my personality.
I will go even further than forgiveness. I will attempt to go the second and third mile. Please know that I am actively praying for you George, for you and your soul. I know you are greatly loved and I endeavor to love you as Jesus loves you. I will do whatever I can for you because you are valuable.
Oh, I almost forgot the most important thing. I will also forget your vicious attacks upon my personality. We’re told to forgive and forget. I will definitely do that.
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Well, thanks for your disingenuity and your non-apology to all those you and Bradly have unjustly accused of thinking like Lucifer.
Well, thanks for your disingenuity and your non-apology to all those you and Bradly have unjustly accused of thinking like Lucifer.
I forgive you for that attack too. I will not hold a grudge against you nor will I retaliate.
I will not hold a grudge against you nor will I retaliate.
The only problem is, there’s nowhere to go, and that’s why it’s a final decision.
(1579.7) 140:8.5 He never ceased to warn his disciples against the evil practice of retaliation; he made no allowance for revenge, the idea of getting even. He deplored the holding of grudges. He disallowed the idea of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He discountenanced the whole concept of private and personal revenge, assigning these matters to civil government, on the one hand, and to the judgment of God, on the other. He made it clear to the three that his teachings applied to the individual, not the state. He summarized his instructions up to that time regarding these matters, as:
(1580.1) 140:8.6 Love your enemies — remember the moral claims of human brotherhood.
(1580.2) 140:8.7 The futility of evil: A wrong is not righted by vengeance. Do not make the mistake of fighting evil with its own weapons.
(1580.3) 140:8.8 Have faith — confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.
(111:7.3) Why do you not aid the Adjuster in the task of showing you the spiritual counterpart of all these strenuous material efforts? Why do you not allow the Adjuster to strengthen you with the spiritual truths of cosmic power while you wrestle with the temporal difficulties of creature existence? Why do you not encourage the heavenly helper to cheer you with the clear vision of the eternal outlook of universal life as you gaze in perplexity at the problems of the passing hour? Why do you refuse to be enlightened and inspired by the universe viewpoint while you toil amidst the handicaps of time and flounder in the maze of uncertainties which beset your mortal life journey? Why not allow the Adjuster to spiritualize your thinking, even though your feet must tread the material paths of earthly endeavor?
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