Calling All Philosophers

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  • #19485
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Oh, that’s more like $10 worth, Redtread. Thanks for chiming in, and welcome to the Forum.

    You did indeed turn bad philosophy into good, seeing Camus as using negativism (ugly) to promote positivism (God). Was that his intent you think? Was he a closet theist?

    Interesting sidenote, Rand is reported to have said she would have used the term Existentialism instead of Objectivism, if it hadn’t already been taken.

     

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    Richard E Warren

    #20237
    Avatar
    Angela
    Participant

     

    I agree with so many of the conclusions drawn in this exciting discussion.

    Transformation on Urantia awaits the philosophy among sufficient number that we are a “brotherhood of man”. I believe that this philosophy is gaining wider acceptance, partly through wonderful forums like this one, but chiefly through individualised revelation:

    52:6.7 (598.2) The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.

    This forum discussion is part of the movement towards ‘augmenting moral insight’ and feeding the soul’s ‘fraternal love’. Searching for answers is a good sign.

    91:8.11 (1002.3) God answers man’s prayer by giving him an increased revelation of truth, an enhanced appreciation of beauty, and an augmented concept of goodness.

    More of the same discussion is sorely needed at this time. We should be discussing philosophy as it applies to secular policy, political correctness, church scandal, national support of illegal war etc. It is how we test belief systems, and expose false motivations told us in the media. Philosophic discussion exposes truth.

    I believe that as it is intended in TUB, philosophy inspires every word, every thought and every action with the capacity to raise word, thought and action to the heights of truth, beauty and goodness. Philosophy should be viewed as “right thinking”.

    98:2.12 (1080.2) …the ideal human estate is that in which philosophy, religion, and science are welded into a meaningful unity by the conjoined action of wisdom, faith, and experience.

    We should all have unending questions about ‘life, the universe and everything’ at this time. We should be pondering every experience and the lessons intended. We should be seeking answers through genuine requests and encouraging independent thought.

    Getting back to the central question being asked on this forum – How do we make philosophy palatable to the next generation, a generation that has been mesmerised by gadgets and instant material satisfactions?

    They say they are happy… But they don’t know what happiness is…

    132:2.5 (1458.2) An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one’s fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father’s will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him….

     

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

    #20239
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    I agree with so many of the conclusions drawn in this exciting discussion. Transformation on Urantia awaits the philosophy among sufficient number that we are a “brotherhood of man”. I believe that this philosophy is gaining wider acceptance, partly through wonderful forums like this one, but chiefly through individualised revelation: 52:6.7 (598.2) The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man. This forum discussion is part of the movement towards ‘augmenting moral insight’ and feeding the soul’s ‘fraternal love’. Searching for answers is a good sign. 91:8.11 (1002.3) God answers man’s prayer by giving him an increased revelation of truth, an enhanced appreciation of beauty, and an augmented concept of goodness. More of the same discussion is sorely needed at this time. We should be discussing philosophy as it applies to secular policy, political correctness, church scandal, national support of illegal war etc. It is how we test belief systems, and expose false motivations told us in the media. Philosophic discussion exposes truth. I believe that as it is intended in TUB, philosophy inspires every word, every thought and every action with the capacity to raise word, thought and action to the heights of truth, beauty and goodness. Philosophy should be viewed as “right thinking”. 98:2.12 (1080.2) …the ideal human estate is that in which philosophy, religion, and science are welded into a meaningful unity by the conjoined action of wisdom, faith, and experience. We should all have unending questions about ‘life, the universe and everything’ at this time. We should be pondering every experience and the lessons intended. We should be seeking answers through genuine requests and encouraging independent thought. Getting back to the central question being asked on this forum – How do we make philosophy palatable to the next generation, a generation that has been mesmerised by gadgets and instant material satisfactions? They say they are happy… But they don’t know what happiness is… 132:2.5 (1458.2) An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one’s fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father’s will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him….

    Thanks for joining the conversation, Angela. It’s an unexpected and genuine pleasure to find such enthusiasm, appreciation and discernment around philosophy. We agree that good philosophy is closely akin to right thinking. And it seems like people enjoy thinking and discussing philosophic issues, on occasion–so long as the intimidating word philosophy isn’t used :D

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    Richard E Warren

    #20289
    Avatar
    Angela
    Participant

    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    It is interesting you should mention enthusiasm. Decoding published theorists is challenging, but I am continually struck by their love of what they do. There has got to be a message in that, I think.

    I am convinced that as the brotherhood of man ‘reality’ dawns in enough minds, we will see a wholesale rejection of actions that undermine it.

    Many on this forum have agreed that education teaches us what to think, rather than how to think. This is so central to our present problem, the adoption of philosophy. But we can also apply the same investigation to all areas of society. We are a cooperative, generous people told continually from birth to grave “you must aggressively compete”. Before coming across TUB I had visions of the society I wish to live in — automatically meeting every need with love and compassion; talent sought out, nurtured and given opportunity for expression; difference viewed as irrelevant (not just tolerated). But we have manufactured ideas everywhere we look which, like ‘the clash of civilisations’, are intended to destabilise, breed suspicion and justify competition-feuled conflict. I am grateful that ideals have much greater traction than mere ideas, if we were to think on it. The brotherhood of man is the reality — we only need acknowledge it to see the illusions of conflict crumble and dissolve.

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

    #20291
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Thanks for the warm welcome! It is interesting you should mention enthusiasm. Decoding published theorists is challenging, but I am continually struck by their love of what they do. There has got to be a message in that, I think. I am convinced that as the brotherhood of man ‘reality’ dawns in enough minds, we will see a wholesale rejection of actions that undermine it. Many on this forum have agreed that education teaches us what to think, rather than how to think. This is so central to our present problem, the adoption of philosophy. But we can also apply the same investigation to all areas of society. We are a cooperative, generous people told continually from birth to grave “you must aggressively compete”. Before coming across TUB I had visions of the society I wish to live in — automatically meeting every need with love and compassion; talent sought out, nurtured and given opportunity for expression; difference viewed as irrelevant (not just tolerated). But we have manufactured ideas everywhere we look which, like ‘the clash of civilisations’, are intended to destabilise, breed suspicion and justify competition-feuled conflict. I am grateful that ideals have much greater traction than mere ideas, if we were to think on it. The brotherhood of man is the reality — we only need acknowledge it to see the illusions of conflict crumble and dissolve.

    Agreed, so long as God is at the head of the brother/sisterhood. But how best do we educate people about that??

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20292
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Thanks for the warm welcome! It is interesting you should mention enthusiasm. Decoding published theorists is challenging, but I am continually struck by their love of what they do. There has got to be a message in that, I think. I am convinced that as the brotherhood of man ‘reality’ dawns in enough minds, we will see a wholesale rejection of actions that undermine it. Many on this forum have agreed that education teaches us what to think, rather than how to think. This is so central to our present problem, the adoption of philosophy. But we can also apply the same investigation to all areas of society. We are a cooperative, generous people told continually from birth to grave “you must aggressively compete”. Before coming across TUB I had visions of the society I wish to live in — automatically meeting every need with love and compassion; talent sought out, nurtured and given opportunity for expression; difference viewed as irrelevant (not just tolerated). But we have manufactured ideas everywhere we look which, like ‘the clash of civilisations’, are intended to destabilise, breed suspicion and justify competition-feuled conflict. I am grateful that ideals have much greater traction than mere ideas, if we were to think on it. The brotherhood of man is the reality — we only need acknowledge it to see the illusions of conflict crumble and dissolve.

    Agreed Angela, so long as God is at the head of the brother/sisterhood. But how best do we educate people about that, given the resistance religion and philosophy perennially face?? .

    Richard E Warren

    #20296
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    I can’t agree with the idea that all competition and conflict must cease.  Both competition and conflict are import in the development of civilization.  In fact, we’re told that some form of competition is essential.

    71:5.1 Competition is essential to social progress, but competition, unregulated, breeds violence.

    71:5.2 The ideal state undertakes to regulate social conduct only enough to take violence out of individual competition and to prevent unfairness in personal initiative.

    Even the profit motive, another type of competition, we are told should not be prematurely removed.

    71:6.2 But the profitmotive must not be suddenly destroyed or removed; it keeps many otherwise slothful mortals hard at work. It is not necessary, however, that this social energy arouser be forever selfish in its objectives.

    71:6.3 Profit motivation must not be taken away from men until they have firmly possessed themselves of superior types of nonprofit motives for economic striving and social serving — the transcendent urges of superlative wisdom, intriguing brotherhood, and excellency of spiritual attainment.

    Likewise, conflict is important for growth.  I’m not referring to destructive conflicts, such as war, terrorism, cyberattacks, etc.. I’m referring to disagreements and clashes of ideas, differences in cultures and divergences of world views.  All of these things are useful to growth.  There really cannot be growth without some element of friction.

    105:6.4 Misadaptation, disharmony, and conflict, all these things are inherent in evolutionary growth, from physical universes to personal creatures.

    159:3.7 Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit.

    Complacency only produces mediocrity. And this is more or less what’s happening in the U.S. today, where students are not allowed to compete on any level, being awarded for just showing up. And businesses that want to turn a profit are vilified, marched and spit upon.  Differences in political opinion are labeled “hate speech” and mob mentality rules the day.  None of this is all that good and nobody seems to understand why, they just keep coming up with new scapegoats to blame.  Something even TUB described:

    86:7.4 But while men are giving up the erroneous doctrine of a spirit cause of the vicissitudes of life, they exhibit a surprising willingness to accept an almost equally fallacious teaching which bids them attribute all human inequalities to political misadaptation, social injustice, and industrial competition.

    This is where our civilization is right now, today.  We’ve given up superstitious beliefs, we’ve even given up God.  Instead, we blame politics, social injustice and the profit motive for all of society’s ills.  These beliefs are just as erroneous as the ones we’ve left behind, and no one seems to understand it. Just listen to the current political speeches!  It blows my mind.

    #20299
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    At it’s core essence, isn’t conflict simply the contrast of unique perspective, experience, insight, and wisdom?  This remains true even when the goal or desired outcome is shared by all and when self interest is removed – there remain differences related to priority, strategy, and tactic.  The universes are filled with committees and bodies of hearing and arbitration and compromise and determination to address this reality demand for unity without uniformity.  Conflict avoidance solves few problems while conflict resolution, when properly motivated and administered, leads to collective or group wisdom and the integration of perspective, experience, insight, and wisdom in productive ways.

    Competition and conflict are not the problem….it is the underlying motives and the desired outcomes of those in competition/conflict that truly need change and adaptation to reality itself.

    I would also like to welcome Angela and I find her perspective quite illuminating to the discussion!  Teaching children how to think and pursue curiosity and excellence in their expressions of knowledge and skill would be a wonderful cause for amazing effect!  The Papers say that one day to come all leaders will compete for public service based on skill and their servant qualities in bringing the greatest good to the greatest number…..rather than what might be in it for themselves and the service to the few at the cost/loss of the many.   I also agree that since the gift of the Son’s Spirit here that there has been a growing sense of the family of humanity (and for some, the family of all creation) and there are ample signs that this inner awareness is accelerating.  I think the 20th century technological triumphs of phonograph, radio, music, transportation, global trade and interdependence, international diplomacy, and now immediate digital transfer of events, responses to events, human knowledge, videography and photography, and mass communication/transportation is definitively ushering in a new era of potential to propel the work of the inner spirits as our guide into much greater realization of the reality of the family of all to which we each belong….if we but see it, believe it, and act on it.

    #20309
    Avatar
    Angela
    Participant

    Thanks, Bonita. You post the most appropriate quotes. On “violent competition”, it is the failure of society to regulate violent competition that is at the heart of the problem.  As to your experience with student standards, I am seeing the same reduction in expectations of students here in Australia. There is pressure to pass students of law, while the NSW Law Society is highlighting deficiencies in the graduate population entering the work force.

    Can we focus specifically on “conflict” with suspicious motives, having the effect of undermining our collective brotherhood. Bradly has succinctly pointed out that it is the insincere motives, the outcomes and ill intent that identify these activities as evil.

    How do we promote brotherhood? On an individual level, to augment moral insight, share fraternal love and act selflessly in service to another are all religious experiences promoting our collective brotherhood. But do we bear responsibility for our environment and the evil we allow locally and in other parts of the world?

    103:3.3 (1132.3) Religion is designed to change man’s environment, but much of the religion found among mortals today has become helpless to do this. Environment has all too often mastered religion.

    I believe there are many organised and systematic efforts in play intended to destabilize societies, while also breeding suspicion of racial, religious and other differences.  Bonita mentions “political opinion” labeled as “hate speech”. The definition of anti-Semitism (and legal prosecution of it) has exploded in many nations to include every negative comment. This amounts to state sanctioned censorship which protects one group from criticism. Political correctness is being employed now to prevent many normal exchanges. One example is a cinematic organization in Britain that has judged The Lord’s Prayer offensive to an unidentified portion of society. The effect is the opposite of that stated. We breed intolerance and fear when we block free speech or worse, make it illegal. So society suffers illusory division and collective brotherhood is undermined.

    Consider this past decade and all the false justifications given for illegal invasion of several nations, all with over 90% Muslim composition. The motivations are diverse, obviously, but at their minimum we can surmise that the selfish desire to secure resources to support national and private interests is among them. Hence the need to invent terrorism and the fear and anger this generates. We are a people confounded by misinformation and immobilised by a lack of clear insight.

    Rick has asked “how do we educate people”. Aren’t we contributing constructively through our discussion here? Applied philosophy in unity with religious experience of our brotherhood. But then if we want to reach others not familiar with the term ‘philosophy’ we would be starting with accepted conceptions of happiness using pointed questions as Socrates did, I think.  I am not particularly interested in Facebook, but follow my daughter’s posts and I see appreciation for beauty in nature posted regularly. A common consideration is whether this is intelligent design or evolution. Society uses philosophical discussion a lot as you said earlier, Rick. Why not tell them they are natural philosophers?

    I am convinced that all this evil occurs in the absence of philosophic reasoning that would enlarge the role of religion in our present reality. Placing religion at the centre of societal exchange — every word, thought and action raised to the heights of truth, beauty and goodness.

    It is not merely a case of opposition to evil practices. There is plenty of that. What is needed is exposure of truth — just as Bradly has said – discussion of motives and intended effects. We are not divided at all, as those that profit would have us believe – we are all one and all evil reduces our sum.

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

    #20321
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Angela wrote: I am convinced that all this evil occurs in the absence of philosophic reasoning that would enlarge the role of religion in our present reality. Placing religion at the centre of societal exchange — every word, thought and action raised to the heights of truth, beauty and goodness.

    I think you have to be careful when delineating the role religion has to play “in our present reality”.  If you mean personal religion, then it becomes each person’s responsibility to live the religious life according to his/her capacity of receptivity to inner guidance then allow the inner life to permeate the outer social life.  And this should happen naturally; if it’s forced it’s an affectation and insincere.

    5:5.4 Moral conduct is always an antecedent of evolved religion and a part of even revealed religion, but never the whole of religious experience. Social service is the result of moral thinking and religious living. Morality does not biologically lead to the higher spiritual levels of religious experience.

    In regards to organized religion, it becomes an entirely different issue. We’re told that combining organized religion and socio-political arenas, it’s like mixing oil and water.  It’s the whole render unto Caesar thing.  Religion is supposed to disconnect itself from social institutions if it is to become an effective ministry to the people.

    99:0.1 Religion achieves its highest social ministry when it has least connection with the secular institutions of society.

    99:0.2 But religion should not be directly concerned either with the creation of new social orders or with the preservation of old ones.

    I think evil occurs with or without philosophic reasoning.  Some people philosophize themselves right into evil, or erroneous thinking.  Actually, erroneous thinking is a natural process.  We’re told, in fact, that all of our material level thinking is mere scaffolding and most of it is erroneous.  Which means, philosophies can be erroneous, therefore must change continuously.

    p1260:2  115:1.1  Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.

    I think it’s important to remember that just like truth, beauty and goodness, evil is also relative.  This means a given philosophy that appears to be good and right today may turn out to be evil tomorrow.  Philosophies must evolve.

    130:4.13 Evil is a relativity concept. It arises out of the observation of the imperfections which appear in the shadow cast by a finite universe of things and beings as such a cosmos obscures the living light of the universal expression of the eternal realities of the Infinite One.

    Religion is just one part of philosophy.  Philosophy is the bridge between material science and spiritual truth.  Philosophy will, and must, change along with both.  The problem in our current society is that philosophy has become the ideology of the masses.  Group think has replaced individual thinking and that means mediocrity wins.  I think this is a problem of education, and if education is corrupt and damaged, as it is, then the onus is on the family to take up the banner.  Problem is, the family is also in shambles and I personally believe that has to do with the emancipation of women.  Liberated woman is a wonderful accomplishment on one hand, and genuine social problem on the other hand.

    Women are the moral and spiritual leaders of the planet, but only if they take childrearing and home building seriously.  Lately in our history women have been taught that this activity is evil.  Something about the philosophy of women’s studies being taught today is terribly wrong.  I’m not saying it’s all wrong, just parts of it.  But clearly, as written in TUB, today’s women are facing the most crucial test of their existence.  I’m convinced that after women are liberated, a proper education will help this world morally and spiritually, especially in cultures where women are still considered to be property.  (I could go on for days about that.)

    84:6.4  Women seem to have more intuition than men, but they also appear to be somewhat less logical. Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind. The hand that rocks the cradle still fraternizes with destiny.

    84:5.10 In the ideals of pair marriage, woman has finally won recognition, dignity, independence, equality, and education; but will she prove worthy of all this new and unprecedented accomplishment? Will modern woman respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity? Today, in the twentieth century, woman is undergoing the crucial test of her long world existence!

    So, if philosophy of living must change along with science and religion in order to uplift our civilization, then I think it’s important to go right to the crux of the problem. One of the biggest problems, as I see it, is that women abandoned their homes and families.  They allowed their children to be educated by the state and we’re all suffering because of it.  The state is in the midst of an ideological self-canabalizing cyclone where God is dead and direction is totally upside down and inside out.  I don’t think our children are being served well, and if our children are not being raised properly, society is in big, big trouble.  The first philosophical change I would make is to convince modern women that it is a worthwhile service to God and the brotherhood of men to rock the cradle and love doing it.

    #20327
    Avatar
    Angela
    Participant

    Bonita, we have so much to discuss and share. Perhaps another thread titled “the whole of religious experience”. I am sure more is involved than moral insight or revelation, fraternal love and selfless service? Does anyone have ideas on what the whole of religious experience encompasses?

    Higgins said “Why can’t a woman be more like a man?” We tried, it wasn’t good or should I say goodness? It was forced and insincere.

    Yes, I agree with what you are saying here, all of it. The adoption of personal religious ideals is our best chance of entering the world I decided I would love to live in before I came across the TUB, I described as: “automatically meeting every need with love and compassion; talent sought out, nurtured and given opportunity for expression; difference viewed as irrelevant (not just tolerated).”

    I recognize this now as the brotherhood of man. This reality is some way off still. In this ideal enough of us have given voice to the religious revelation within.  But it assumes that we are all endowed with that capacity and I am not inclined to believe we all are. It assumes we are all on an individual journey reaching the same point at the same time. Not going to happen. But if enough of us do get there, then the false justifications and elicit motives behind evil practices that undermine our collective brotherhood will not survive the light we collectively caste. The reality will reveal itself to all. The UB is our assurance of this, isn’t it? Doesn’t it suggest we are entering this era in “Urantia’s Post-Bestowal Age” 52:6 (597)

    We are warned: “On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort.” 52:6.2 (597.3)

    I hear what you are saying. Personal religious experience is “personal” and cannot influence larger societal conditions. But religion is intended to “change man’s environment”, in the direction of nurturing and fraternal loving co-existence.  See 103:3.3 (1132.3)

    Also to reveal truth: “As natural religious experience continues to progress, periodic revelations of truth punctuate the otherwise slow-moving course of planetary evolution.” 103:0.2 (1129.2)

    I agree that children are being short-changed on their education both in the home with both parents working and in our education system. It is not just ‘what we teach’ that needs change, it is ‘how we teach’. Creativity must have encouragement, learning made fun, rather than turning out uniform robots filled with resentment. We are made to work such long hours, much of it in unproductive activities or occupations. If we strip this back then children would have the attention they need and crave from both parents.

    I am assuming that when you mention “after women are liberated” you mean in a spiritual sense, not women’s emancipation? The suffragettes, women’s lib(eration) and feminist movements all undermine the collective brotherhood. They encourage aggressive competition between the sexes, where cooperation is needed for society’s benefit, especially as you say, for the children. If love and service to others were the base values, instead of competition for denied rights, I wonder where we would be today? Our base needs are not being met. This IMHO is due to a deficit of philosophical insights about all manner of moral issues. Base needs should by now on our planet, be met automatically without all this struggle and conflict, it goes without saying, that includes the absence of war. Yes, philosophy has become “the ideology of the masses”, with ‘a little knowledge’ being a dangerous means of control. Mediocrity is one of the tools in the tool box.

    Racism is another “ism” that has the effect of undermining the brotherhood of man. I read about the manufactured “clash of civilisations” and islamophobia when comparing Islam and international human rights law many years ago. The UB tells us that we should study other religious theory because this will reduce suspicion and misunderstanding. But I also think other religious texts have a lot to offer. Islam and Buddhism are excellent sources of this love/cooperation/service philosophy for life. But Islam makes it a duty which is not going to function well – like you said it will be forced and insincere when we require moral change without allowing religious experience to develop naturally. Also, the society in which Islam developed denigrated women to the disappointment of Muhammed. I was so touched when practicing law in Auburn, an Islamic suburb of Sydney. I was called “sister” all the time by the men and some of the female clients would hug me! It was a great stress reliever.

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

    #20343
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    …Aren’t we contributing constructively through our discussion here? Applied philosophy in unity with religious experience of our brotherhood. But then if we want to reach others not familiar with the term ‘philosophy’ we would be starting with accepted conceptions of happiness using pointed questions as Socrates did, I think. I am not particularly interested in Facebook, but follow my daughter’s posts and I see appreciation for beauty in nature posted regularly. A common consideration is whether this is intelligent design or evolution. Society uses philosophical discussion a lot as you said earlier, Rick. Why not tell them they are natural philosophers?

    Excellent points, and yes, no doubt people can become comfortable with the word philosophy when they realize we are all philosophers–in a measure at least. So let’s tell ’em the truthfacts ;-)

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20345
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Bonita, we have so much to discuss and share. Perhaps another thread titled “the whole of religious experience”. I am sure more is involved than moral insight or revelation, fraternal love and selfless service? Does anyone have ideas on what the whole of religious experience encompasses? Higgins said “Why can’t a woman be more like a man?” We tried, it wasn’t good or should I say goodness? It was forced and insincere. Yes, I agree with what you are saying here, all of it. The adoption of personal religious ideals is our best chance of entering the world I decided I would love to live in before I came across the TUB, I described as: “automatically meeting every need with love and compassion; talent sought out, nurtured and given opportunity for expression; difference viewed as irrelevant (not just tolerated).” I recognize this now as the brotherhood of man. This reality is some way off still. In this ideal enough of us have given voice to the religious revelation within. But it assumes that we are all endowed with that capacity and I am not inclined to believe we all are. It assumes we are all on an individual journey reaching the same point at the same time. Not going to happen. But if enough of us do get there, then the false justifications and elicit motives behind evil practices that undermine our collective brotherhood will not survive the light we collectively caste. The reality will reveal itself to all. The UB is our assurance of this, isn’t it? Doesn’t it suggest we are entering this era in “Urantia’s Post-Bestowal Age” 52:6 (597) We are warned: “On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort.” 52:6.2 (597.3) I hear what you are saying. Personal religious experience is “personal” and cannot influence larger societal conditions. But religion is intended to “change man’s environment”, in the direction of nurturing and fraternal loving co-existence. See 103:3.3 (1132.3) Also to reveal truth: “As natural religious experience continues to progress, periodic revelations of truth punctuate the otherwise slow-moving course of planetary evolution.” 103:0.2 (1129.2) I agree that children are being short-changed on their education both in the home with both parents working and in our education system. It is not just ‘what we teach’ that needs change, it is ‘how we teach’. Creativity must have encouragement, learning made fun, rather than turning out uniform robots filled with resentment. We are made to work such long hours, much of it in unproductive activities or occupations. If we strip this back then children would have the attention they need and crave from both parents. I am assuming that when you mention “after women are liberated” you mean in a spiritual sense, not women’s emancipation? The suffragettes, women’s lib(eration) and feminist movements all undermine the collective brotherhood. They encourage aggressive competition between the sexes, where cooperation is needed for society’s benefit, especially as you say, for the children. If love and service to others were the base values, instead of competition for denied rights, I wonder where we would be today? Our base needs are not being met. This IMHO is due to a deficit of philosophical insights about all manner of moral issues. Base needs should by now on our planet, be met automatically without all this struggle and conflict, it goes without saying, that includes the absence of war. Yes, philosophy has become “the ideology of the masses”, with ‘a little knowledge’ being a dangerous means of control. Mediocrity is one of the tools in the tool box. Racism is another “ism” that has the effect of undermining the brotherhood of man. I read about the manufactured “clash of civilisations” and islamophobia when comparing Islam and international human rights law many years ago. The UB tells us that we should study other religious theory because this will reduce suspicion and misunderstanding. But I also think other religious texts have a lot to offer. Islam and Buddhism are excellent sources of this love/cooperation/service philosophy for life. But Islam makes it a duty which is not going to function well – like you said it will be forced and insincere when we require moral change without allowing religious experience to develop naturally. Also, the society in which Islam developed denigrated women to the disappointment of Muhammed. I was so touched when practicing law in Auburn, an Islamic suburb of Sydney. I was called “sister” all the time by the men and some of the female clients would hug me! It was a great stress reliever.

    Thanks Angela, well thought out essay, capped with touching personal experience/insight. 

    This digs deep into the education of youth problem, you wrote: “Creativity must have encouragement, learning made fun, rather than turning out uniform robots filled with resentment.”

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #20367
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    Angela
    Participant

     

    …Aren’t we contributing constructively through our discussion here? Applied philosophy in unity with religious experience of our brotherhood. But then if we want to reach others not familiar with the term ‘philosophy’ we would be starting with accepted conceptions of happiness using pointed questions as Socrates did, I think. I am not particularly interested in Facebook, but follow my daughter’s posts and I see appreciation for beauty in nature posted regularly. A common consideration is whether this is intelligent design or evolution. Society uses philosophical discussion a lot as you said earlier, Rick. Why not tell them they are natural philosophers?

    Excellent points, and yes, no doubt people can become comfortable with the word philosophy when they realize we are all philosophers–in a measure at least. So let’s tell ’em the truthfacts;-).

    I led my daughter into this discussion years ago by calling her a natural philosopher. She was quite young, so she innocently and predictably asked ‘What do they do?” Thinking she might be one. — So began a very long drawn out conversation lasting years. But it was always fun because we would critique something done or said.  It began when we were discussing jobs. She said “I would rather do something I love doing, than something I am good at.”

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

    #20372
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    Angela
    Participant

    On the subject of Religious Experience, could we also include on the list these excerpts from TUB and The Sermon on The Mount? They seem to be a guide — How To Live A Happy Life.

    140:4.7 (1572.7) Religion is valid only when it reveals the fatherhood of God and enhances the brotherhood of men.

    140:5.9 (1574.2) Experiential righteousness is a pleasure, not a duty. Jesus’ righteousness is a dynamic love — fatherly-brotherly affection. It is not the negative or thou-shalt-not type of righteousness.

    1. 140:5.7 (1573.9) “Happy are the poor in spirit — the humble.” Those who search for spiritual wealth are “teachable and truth-seeking”.
    2. 140:5.8 (1574.1) “Happy are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.” Only those who feel poor in spirit will ever hunger for righteousness.
    3. 140:5.11 (1574.4) “Happy are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” It embraces patience and forbearance and is motivated by an unshakable faith in a lawful and friendly universe. It masters all temptations to rebel against the divine leading.
    4. 140:5.12 (1574.5) “Happy are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” Jesus referred to “faith which man should have in his fellow man; that faith which a parent has in his child, and which enables him to love his fellows even as a father would love them.”

    The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)

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